NamVet Newsletter, Volume 8, Number 8, August 23, 1994

This newsletter is provided for non-commercial use only. For permission to use for other purposes, contact the Managing Editor, Mr . G. Joe Peck.

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     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     .                                  __                           .
     .    -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-  ____/  \_                         .
     .                            (      *  \                        .
     .        Managing  Editor    \    Quangtri                      .
     .        ----------------     \_/\       \_ Hue                 .
     .         G. Joseph Peck          \_Ashau    Phu Bai            .
     .                                   \_*       \_                .
     .      Distribution Manager           \      *  )               .
     .      --------------------          _/     Danang              .
     .          Jerry Hindle      \|/    (            \_*Chu Lai     .
     .                           --*--    \_    ------- \__          .
     .        Section Editors     /|\       \_  I Corps    \         .
     .        ---------------                 \ -------     !        .
     .  IN-TOUCH: Ray "Frenchy" Moreau       /\_____        !        .
     .  INCARCERATED VETS: Joyce Flory      /       !        \       .
     .  MIA/POW: Paul Bylin                 !       !___      \      .
     .                                      !           \/\____!     .
     .  KEEPER OF THE LIST: Joyce Flory     !                 !      .
     .                                     /  Dak To          !      .
     .                                    /     *            /       .
     .                                    !                  \_      .
     .                                    !             Phu Cat\     .
     .                                     \    *            *  )    .
     .                                      \ Pleiku            )    .
     .     -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-           \                  \    .
     .                                       /                  /    .
     . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us  (       --------    !    .
     . were scared and wary, but we pulled  _\      II Corps    !    .
     . one another along and were able     /        --------     \   .
     . to depend on each other.  That has  \                      \  .
     . never changed.  Today, free of the   !                 *  /   .
     . criticisms and misunderstandings   _/           Nhatrang /    .
     . many veterans have endured,      _/                     /     .
     . NAM VET is a shining beacon,  __/                       !     .
     . a ray of hope, and a    _  __/  \                       !     .
     . reminder that the _____( )/      !               Camranh Bay  .
     . lessons learned  /               !__                    !     .
     . at such a high  /                   \                  /      .
     . price shall not \          Bien Hoa  \                /       .
     . be forgotten  -  !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        .
     . nor the errors    \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           .
     . repeated!!!"  ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/  Duplication in .
     .       !               (               ___/ any form permitted .
     .  _____!                \__      * ___/      for NONCOMMERCIAL .
     . !                          Saigon/            purposes ONLY!  .
     .  \___   --------           /  \/                              .
     .      \  IV Corps          /       For other use, contact:     .
     .       ) --------         /                                    .
     .      /                   !   G. Joseph Peck (813) 885-1241    .
     .     /               ____/           Managing Editor           .
     .    /         Mekong/                                          .
     .    !         Delta/  This newsletter is comprised of articles .
     .    !        ____/     and items from individuals and other    .
     .    !       /       sources.  We are not responsible for the   .
     .    !      /      content of this information nor are any of   .
     .    !   __/        NamVet's contributors or Section Editors.   .
     .     \_/                                                   gjp .
     .                                                               .
     NamVet Newsletter                                        Page    i
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994



                      T A B L E   O F   C O N T E N T S

     1.  From US to YOU
          So THAT's a Fire Ant! ....................................  1
          Copyright Notice .........................................  3

     2.  MIA's/POWs
          Help Jose Sanfiel with POW/MIAs Highway! .................  4
          Some Gave All... .........................................  6
          NAMES on THE WALL ........................................  7
          Gulf War Information! ....................................  9

     3.  Not for eating or drinking
          Agent Orange Info ........................................ 19
          Break out the Clearasil ! ............................ 21

     4.  Three Squares and ...
          Homeless Veterans ........................................ 22
          Achilles in Vietnam ...................................... 31
          A visit or note once in awhile? .......................... 35
          PTSD & the Forgotten Warriors ............................ 36

     5.  Pursuit of Freedom
          Been there ... done that! ................................ 41
          Fading Photographs -- Part 1  ............................ 42
          The Electronic Chapel .................................... 56
          Silver Star .............................................. 57
          Remember? ................................................ 63

     6.  Veteran commo from Uncle Sam and ...
          Ask the Veterans' Affairs Counselor ...................... 64
          Interesting Veteran Information .......................... 68
          VETLink #50 - Jeff Beer .................................. 70
          Veteran Legal Assistance ................................. 72

     7.  Things to think about
          Mission: Command & Control ............................... 75
          Lessons from Geese ....................................... 84

     8.  Sister Vets
          VWMP's Sister Search ..................................... 85
          VWMP's Sister Search Form ................................ 86
          VWMP Products for 1994 ................................... 87

     9.  IVVEC Phonebook/Information
          The IVVEC Phonebook ...................................... 88
          NamVet Distribution Survey Form .......................... 97
          Some Gave All... ......................................... 98

     NamVet Newsletter                                        Page   ii
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                               From US to YOU

                           So THAT's a Fire Ant!
       I'm  getting  some REAL different experiences here  in  Florida! =20
     Walkin'  barefoot  through  the grass jus'  don't cut  it  anymore=20
     (hehehehe)  as a recent 'just standin'  around lookin'  at things'=20
     from  the top of a mound of dirt quickly taught me.   Wasn't there=20
     but a second when suddenly sting-like feelings started comin' from=20
     m' toes and sides of m'  feet.   So THAT's a Fire Ant!   Found out=20
     REAL quick...
       Tryin' to cut the lawn ('er jungle) was 'nother 'xperience you'd=20
     find amusing.  Saw this black-like snake slitherin'  away whilst I=20
     was  approaching a particularly high stand of grass.   Was  ALMOST=20
     tempted to chase it an'  chop it up with the lawnmower   but=20
     somethin' tol'  me to hold off an'  let it go.   Later was talkin'=20
     with  neighbor and learned that the snake was called a Black Racer=20
     -  and  they're  HELPFUL down here to keep the rattlesnakes  away! =20
     Let 'em slither 'round if'n they're gonna keep me an' mine safe!
       There's  a lot o'  little strange bugs an'  creatures that  I've=20
     been findin' lately - lot of 'em that an entomologist would have a=20
     ball with! =20
       There's a lot o' little strange bugs an'  creatures,  too,  that=20
     seem  to haunt the halls of the body-DVA that I've found  continue=20
     to  exist no matter WHERE you're dealin'  with 'em...   ya'  know,=20
     "The  PE (Paperwork Eater)"  bug ...  the kind that eats paperwork=20
     an'  ya have to send 'nother copy and then 'nother copy after that=20
     'cause the second one got eaten too!  Or the "LF (Lose the Files)"=20
     bug -  the one responsible for loosing my application for VocRehab=20
     here  in Florida.   I didn't learn about THAT one's existence here=20
     in Florida until last week after I'd registered for USF. =20
       Checkin' to be SURE all my paperwork was in order, I called VARO=20
     in   St.   Petersburg,   FL.   since  I  hadn't  yet  received  my=20
     Authorization to Attend (VA Form 1905).  Sure 'nuff, the PE and LF=20
     bugs  had struck again!   They couldn't even find the SECOND  copy=20
     I'd  sent 'em -  and,  for sure,  the Authorization to Attend form=20
     (1905) was now a long, long way off.
       Without  DVA payin' the tuition an' books an' addin' Subsistence
     allowance, its  clearly  settin' m'self up for failure if'n I show
     up at the college and begin m' classes!
       Banged on the doors of my Service Rep. (State of Florida, Office=20
     of  Veteran  Affairs).   "Surely we have a failure to  communicate=20
     here"  I felt when I was told,  "Joe...  you KNOW that if'n the VA=20
     approves  your claim for VocRehab you'll lose your entitlement  to=20
     Unemployability  upon  your graduation.   You KNOW you'll have  to=20
     work after graduation..."  Sheesh!
       Banged, too,  on the doors of my local Vet Center.   Great bunch=20
     o'  folks and they're doin'  what they can.   MIGHT just make it -=20
     but its gonna be close.  We'll keep ya posted...  Wunner,  though,=20
     if'n the PE and LF bugs are kinda like the black racer?
       Maybe I should just take time and rest ??=20
       As many of ya might note, we've begun a serialized story in this=20
     issue  by Mike McCombs.   Its a very interesting story when ya put=20
     it all together (I'm workin'  now on makin'  it into an electronic=20
     book).  Stay tuned and we'll be announcin' its availability.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  1
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       Our  VETLink  BBSs  continue to grow in number  and  the  VETNet=20
     echoes  are rapidly expanding.   Look for a VETLink BBS near you -=20
     and  WELCOME  to all those NEW VETLink BBSs that haven't yet  been=20
     officially  welcomed  to our number!   I'll be getting  your  echo
     announcements out VERY shortly!  WELCOME HOME!!!
       For  now,  so MUCH on the front an'  back burners that even  the=20
     Fire  Ants don't stand a chance -  let alone me.   LOTS to do  and=20
     even   MORE  for  our  next  issue  of  NamVet  ...   Keep   those=20
     contributions  comin'   folk  -   and  don't  forget  to  visit  a=20
     hospitalized  or shut-in veteran:   They'd really appreciate  YOUR=20
     company and some of YOUR time. =20
                'til next issue ...
                     Show a brother or sister veteran
                                         That YOU care!
                                 God bless
                                  -=3D Joe

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  2
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     >  * - Copyright Notice - *   ____/~~\_                         <
     <                            (      *  \                        >
     > Prepared by G. Joseph Peck \    Quangtri                      <
     <       NamVet Project        \_/\       \_ Hue                 >
     > Electronic Veterans' Centers of \_Ashau    Phu Bai            <
     <  America Corporation (EVAC)       \_*       \_                >
     > Copyright 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990,  \_     *  )                <
     <     1991, 1992, 1993, 1994         _/     Danang              >
     >                                   (            \_*Chu Lai     <
     <       All rights reserved.         \_    ------- \__          >
     >                                      \_  I Corps    \         <
     < NamVet is a collective volunteer       \ -------     !        >
     > effort comprised of articles and      /\_____        !        <
     < items sharing veteran-related news,  /       !        \       >
     > experiences and resources amongst    !       !___      \      <
     < veterans, their family members,      !           \/\____!     >
     > concerned others and health,         !                 !      <
     < educational and correctional        /  Dak To          !      >
     > institutions.                      /     *            /       <
     <                                    !                  \_      >
     >                                    !             Phu Cat\     <
     < Segments of this newsletter may be  \    *            *  )    >
     > excerpted for counseling, self-      \ Pleiku            )    <
     < help, dissemination amongst veteran   \                  \    >
     > organizations and groups, and for     /                  /    <
     < scholarly purposes without further   (       --------    !    >
     > permission; it is requested only     _\      II Corps    !    <
     < that proper credit be given to the  /        --------     \   >
     > author of a particular article and  \                      \  <
     < the contributor who submitted it.    !                 *  /   >
     >                                    _/           Nhatrang /    <
     < ANY OTHER USE REQUIRES THE       _/                     /     >
     > WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION OF      __/                       !     <
     <                         _  __/  \                       !     >
     > Electronic Veterans'___( )/      !               Camranh Bay  <
     <    Centers of    /               !__                    !     >
     >     America     /                   \                  /      <
     <   Corporation   \          Bien Hoa  \                /       >
     >      (EVAC)      !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        <
     <                   \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           >
     >        .      ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               <
     <       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/                 >
     >       !               (               ___/                    <
     <  _____!                \__      * ___/                        >
     > !                          Saigon/                            <
     <  \___   --------           /  \/                              >
     >      \  IV Corps          /                                   <
     <       ) --------         /  CONTACT:                          >
     >      /                   !  Electronic Veterans' Centers of   <
     <     /               ____/     America Corporation (EVAC)      >
     >    /         Mekong/        ATTN: G. Joseph Peck              <
     <    !         Delta/          Managing Editor - NamVet         >
     >    !        ____/           Post Office Box 261692            <
     <    !       /                Tampa, Florida  33615-1692        >
     <    !      /                    VOICE: (813) 885-1241          <
     <    !   __/                                                    >
     <     \_/                                                   gjp <

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  3
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994


           Help Sanfiel get his drive on the road to honor POWs/MIAs
              By Charley Reese in the 2/24/89 [Orlando] Sentinel
                   Submitted by Jose N. Proenza Sanfiel
        4230 Pow's & Mia's Memorial Dr. - St. Cloud, Fl 34772-8142
     [Joe note:   I was going through some of my MIA/POW stuff recently=20
     (see NAMES ON THE WALL in this issue)  and happened to come across=20
     an article written about our Jose "Corporal Pro"  Proenza Sanfiel. =20
       The telephone rings - sometimes late at night;   the fax machine=20
     springs to life -  another note from Jose pushing for the renaming=20
     project. =20
       Last year, bio-daughter Kymberli and myself saw him work SO hard=20
     asking for OUR support at The Wall ...
       Today  ...  how  many  of YOU have written in/on behalf  of  the=20
     renaming our nations' interstate highways?
       Let's give Jose some SUPPORT ... He's STILL at it!
                          Together then ... together now!!!]
       Andy Jackson, one of my favorite presidents, said, "One man with=20
     courage is a majority."  Such a fellow is Jose N. Proenza Sanfiel,=20
     of  Kissimmee.   Sanfiel  has  taken it upon himself  to  persuade=20
     Congress  to  name  two  of the interstate highways  in  honor  of=20
     Americans  who  are  or were prisoners of war and  those  who  are=20
     missing in action.
       I  think  it is a great idea and I'm betting on  Sanfiel.   This=20
     American, who came from Cuba as a young boy and who has served two=20
     hitches  in  the  Marine  Corps,  has all  the  qualities  today's=20
     politicians  are  least able to cope with.   He wants nothing  for=20
     himself.  He won't tolerate a runaround.  And he won't quit.
       It  would  seem  to  me that a Congress eager to  hand  out  $12=20
     billion to foreign governments, some of which are our enemies,  or=20
     $2 billion to Japanese-Americans and former Japanese aliens, could=20
     at least name two highways for the MIAs/POWs.  After all, it won't=20
     cost anything but the signs.
       Ever since Americans left Saigon in 1975,  I have been listening=20
     to American politicians flapping their lips about their dedication=20
     to the MIAs/POWs.  Of course,  former President Jimmy Carter tried=20
     to  evade  the  problem of MIAs by simply  having  a  bureaucratic=20
     procedure  declare them dead.   The bureaucratic ploy was based on=20
     this ridiculous premise:   Mrs.  Wife and Child,  do you (who live=20
     here  as private citizens with no resources)  have any proof  your=20
     husband and father is alive?  No?  We, we declare him dead.
       Only  outrage  prevented this bureaucratic sleight of hand  that=20
     was designed to hide the fact now tainting several administrations=20
     that the U.S. government, for reasons of political expediency, has=20
     not  gone to the mat on the MIAs/POWs just as it did not go to the=20
     mat after the Korean War and World War II.
       At  any  rate,  Sanfiel thinks that if we name two  highways  in=20
     honor of these men,  then it will be harder for the politicians to=20
     forget them.   He wrote state officials and they told him it was a=20
     federal matter.  He wrote his congressman, Rep.  Bill Nelson,  and=20
     Nelson said it was a state matter.
       Sanfiel, however, is not one who gives up on the runarounds.  He=20
     wrote  the federal Department of Highway Administration and got it=20
     straight  from the horse's mouth:   The U.S.  Congress may name an=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  4
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     interstate highway whatever it wishes to name it.
       So, at his own expense,  Sanfiel,  while working and studying to=20
     become  a registered nurse,  writes letter after letter and passes=20
     out literature.  His strategy is simple: If enough Americans write=20
     their U.S. representatives and senators and ask for it,  they will=20
     do it.
       And  he's right.   At first,  they will try to ignore it.   Then=20
     they  will come up with several bureaucratic reasons why it  can't=20
     be done.   In the end,  however,  if enough Americans persist with=20
     the same faith and tenacity as Sanfiel,  the politicians will give=20
     in.   Then,  of  course,  they will pat themselves on the back and=20
     take credit for the idea.
       I want to quote from Sanfiel's handout because I like his style:
       "How can you help?  Are contributions to this cause being taken? =20
     Where  do you send them?   You can help by passing the word on  to=20
     any  and  all  people  that you know until the  goal  is  reached. =20
     Contributions?   If  anyone  asks you for money for this  project,=20
     slap  their  faces  and call the  cops.   The  only  contributions=20
     "accepted"  are  a  25-cent  stamp (now 29-cent)  attached  to  an=20
     envelope  and  addressed  to  Washington,  D.C.,  with  your  view=20
     regarding this subject."
       In  other words,  all Sanfiel wants anyone to do is to sit  down=20
     and  write  their  members of Congress and ask them  to  name  two=20
     interstate highways in honor of the MIAs/POWs.
       That  is  refreshing.   I,  like most people,  am forever  being=20
     bombarded  with computerized letters from patriots-for-profit  who=20
     need  our  money  to save the republic from some  current  horror. =20
     Jose is a true patriot.  And like all true patriots,  he's not for=20
     MIA's  Memorial  Highway.   SENATE  BILL S-900 COULD MAKE  THIS  A=20
     NATIONWIDE     REALITY.      WRITE     TODAY!!!       ASK     YOUR=20
       Write to:  POW's & MIA's Project Interstate
                  4230 POW's & MIA's Memorial Drive
                  St. Cloud, Fl  USA  34772-8142
                   VOICE/DATA/FAX: 407-457-MIAS (6427).
     Long  past  time for US to DO  something,  brothers  &  sisters...=20
                   Wouldn't NOW be a GREAT time to start?

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  5
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

         Some Gave ALL ...                      Some Still Give!!!
               O                                      O
                O                    SOME GAVE ALL  ...
        !         O                                O               !
        ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia !
        !           O                            O                 !
        ! ~~~~~ ~ ~  O~   ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~~ ~ ~~   O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~  ~~~  ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~  ~ ~~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~  ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        ! ~~~  ~~ ~~ ~  O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~  O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~  ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~  O          ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O)       / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  /          / O   \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~ ~  ~~ ~~ / PRISONER /       \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~  ~ ~~ ~~ /   OF     /\          \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ /          /  \   IN     \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~  !
        ! ~~~  ~~~ ~ /    WAR   / ~~ \          \  ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / ~ ~~ \  ACTION /  ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \       /   ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \     /  ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \   / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~  !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
        ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow !

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  6
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                             NAMES on THE WALL
                A program for Friends, Family and Veterans
                              By Chuck Mangi
                      Input at VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     [Joe  Note:   Chuck,  THANX  for  creating such a  GREAT  PROGRAM! =20
     PERFECT  for  those  veteran organizations and others who  have  a=20
     computer  and  printer and would like to look up the names of  our=20
     brother  and  sister  veterans on THE WALL.   The  print-outs  are=20
     terrific.  And, yes, as you said,  tears DID come to m'  eyes as I=20
     saw in front of me the NAMES of many that I knew.
       NAMVET Readers:   Chuck's program rates some super-high marks on=20
     "Veterans' helping veterans."  Bring THE WALL home!]  =20
     In 1992 I was privileged to stand vigil at the "Moving Wall"  with=20
     other  members  of  the Vietnam Veterans of  America,  Chapter  49=20
     (Pleasantville, NY).  During that watch we helped many visitors in=20
     locating  friends  and relatives on THE WALL.   We had a  personal=20
     computer  with a program that aided us in that effort.   While the=20
     program worked, it was a "cold list" and lacked many features that=20
     would  have  made it more useable and APPROPRIATE for use  at  THE=20
     WALL.   One  of  the other members of Chapter 49 asked if I  could=20
     write  "something better."   "NAMES ON THE WALL"  is the result of=20
     that request.   It is a far more APPROPRIATE presentation of those=20
     NAMES  than  any  other  software.   It treats each  NAME  as  the=20
     individual person that they are.
     While  there  has been considerable time,  effort and  expense  in=20
     developing  "NAMES on THE WALL"  it is not our intent to offer  it=20
     FOR  INDIVIDUAL  USE  for a profit  (Commercial,  educational  and=20
     governmental organizations:  write for pricing).   We are aware of=20
     other programs, some costing as much as $500,  and some offered by=20
     commercial software houses but we feel that "NAMES on THE WALL" is=20
     the  easiest to use,  the most APPROPRIATE and certainly the least=20
     expensive.   It is a "stand-alone"  program which does not violate=20
     any  copy  protection or distribution laws,  does not require  any=20
     other  program other than DOS and it will run under  DOS,  Windows=20
     and OS/2 (MAC?, Not at this time).
     It  is our intent to offer "NAMES on THE WALL"  to any  INDIVIDUAL=20
     for the cost of the floppies and mailing.   The number of floppies=20
     and hence the cost will depend on your PC.  See [following]  order=20
     form  for  details.   You will see within the program and  on  the=20
     order  form that we would be happy to accept ANY CONTRIBUTIONS YOU=20
     WOULD  CARE  TO SEND.   All of the contributions will be  used  by=20
     Chapter 49 in its continuing efforts to help those less fortunate. =20
     Without contributions, we only cover our costs!
     Features of "NAMES on THE WALL"
     --Look  up any name on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial or the Moving=20
     --Look  up  can be by last name only,  last name generic (as  Man*=20
       which will find Mangi, Mankin,  etc.),  last name and city,  and=20
       state, and branch.   Look up can also be by KIA date or within a=20
       range of dates.
     --Duplicate names are all displayed with branch,  city and KIA/MIA=20
       date so that you may select your choice.
     --Once the name is found (and selected if a duplicate name)  it is=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  7
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       displayed  on the screen with name and rank,  city and state  of=20
       record, KIA or MIA date and location on The Wall.
     --If  desired,  that information can be printed.   The print  will=20
       show  the same data at the top of the page with a section at the=20
       bottom  for  a tracing.   Surrounding the tracing are the  words=20
       that  appear  on THE WALL itself at the top of panel 1 east  and=20
       the bottom of panel 1 west.
     --Look  up on a 486/33 PC with a good hard disk is under a second;=20
       on a 286/10 with a slow hard disk it is about 2 seconds.
     --Technical information:
       Tested under DOS 5.0,  OS/2 and 3.1 (will not install while OS/2=20
       is running, run DOS for install).  The author runs it under both=20
       DOS  and  Windows 3.1  There is no need for a mouse but  a  hard=20
       disk is required.   You should plan on about 10-meg (it may need=20
       up  to  15  meg during the installation  procedure).   The  file=20
       itself is 9.1meg.  It is organized in MS Professional ISAM.  The=20
       program  was  written in MS Professional Basic with the  screens=20
       written  in  Crescent Software's "Quick  Screen."   Distribution=20
       compliments of PKWARE (thanks!).  Will not run on a MAC!
     Name: _________________________________________________
     Mailing Address: ______________________________________
     City ________________ State __ Zip ______  Organization __________
     Cost w/Postage(circle one) _______________________________________
     Floppies(3-1/2 DD-$14; 3-1/2 HD-$9.50; 5-1/4 DD-$23; 5-1/4 HD-$11)
     Contribution (Greatly appreciated!) ______________________________
     Total: ___________________________________________________________
     Make checks payable to:         Fastest service:
     Chapter 49, VVA                        Checks to Chapter 49, VVA
     Westchester County Chapter 49          Mail to:
     Vietnam Veterans of America            Chuck Mangi
     P.O. Box 224                           31 Dingee Rd.
     Pleasantville, NY  10570               So. Salem, NY  10590-9803

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  8
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                Health Chief Orders Tests On Sick Gulf Vets
                          Submitted by  Paul Bylin=20
                   LZ Memories/VETLink #84 - Peabody, MA.
                               (508) 977-9756=20
       WASHINGTON --  Ailing soldiers,  sailors,  airmen and Marines who=20
     served  in  Operation Desert Storm should be able to  get  in-depth=20
     medical  testing at military medical centers nationwide as early as=20
       The testing, which has been ordered by the Pentagon health chief,=20
     is part of a three-pronged effort to find the causes of unexplained=20
     ailments  in  Persian Gulf veterans.  The  illnesses,  collectively=20
     known as Persian Gulf Syndrome,  have symptoms including persistent=20
     fatigue, memory loss, irritability, occasional diarrhea, rashes and=20
     joint aches.=20
       The  testing initially will be limited to military members in the=20
     services'  Persian  Gulf  Registry  who  are eligible  to  use  the=20
     military health care system:  active-duty personnel;  reservists on=20
     active duty and the family members of both, defense officials said.=20
       "It's  the  only  thing we can  do,"  said  Dr.  Stephen  Joseph,=20
     assistant  secretary  of  defense for health affairs,  at  a  press=20
     briefing May 12. "We have a significant amount of [sick]  people to=20
     whom we have a responsibility."=20
       The  testing  is  the first standardized data  collection  to  be=20
     conducted  by the Pentagon for veterans afflicted with Persian Gulf=20
     Syndrome, officials said.=20
       That is one of three major elements of the Pentagon's efforts. In=20
     addition,  Joseph  has asked Dr.  Harrison Spencer,  dean of Tulane=20
     School  of Public Health and Tropical Medicine in New  Orleans,  to=20
     review  Pentagon  efforts  and recommend whether any  other  action=20
     should  be taken to help solve the mystery,  according to a May  11=20
     memo Joseph sent to Deputy Defense Secretary John Deutch.=20
       The  third  part  is to create a forum of  national  medical  and=20
     public  health experts to advise the Pentagon and allow more public=20
     comment, the memo said.=20
       Joseph said the Pentagon's efforts are fueled in part by a series=20
     of  articles  that  appeared  in  Army  Times  on  April  25.  They=20
     highlighted  the  plight of active-duty and former service  members=20
     whose health is deteriorating amid government inaction on the=20
       "It's  perfectly  self-evident,  the  role the  media  played  --=20
     particularly  those  that  serve  the  military  community  --   in=20
     heightening the focus and helping us move faster," he said.=20
       A panel of medical experts convened by the National Institutes of=20
     Health  a  week  after  the articles  appeared  also  helped  speed=20
     government efforts, Joseph said.=20
       The  panel concluded that no single disease appears to be causing=20
     Persian  Gulf Syndrome and that the government would have to gather=20
     a  lot  more information before anyone could decide what is  making=20
     veterans sick.  Most of the data collected so far have pertained to=20
     individual cases, the panel said.=20
       Exactly  what medical tests the services will perform on veterans=20
     is  still  being worked out by a group of top defense  and  service=20
     officials  that is meeting weekly,  Joseph said.  He added that the=20
     medical  centers should receive guidance by the first week of  June=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page  9
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     on what tests to perform.=20
       All  the information collected will be shared with the Department=20
     of Veterans Affairs, which is maintaining its own in-depth registry=20
     of sick Persian Gulf veterans.=20
       Joseph  said  initial testing results should be available  within=20
     120  days,  although  the  testing will go on "for as  long  as  it=20
       "One  of the things I'm really hoping to achieve with this is  to=20
     have  people feel confident enough to come forward ...  to help  us=20
     figure  out what is going on,"  Joseph said.  "We're doing this for=20
     you, so please come forward and take advantage of it."=20
       SAN  ANTONIO --  In a small laboratory at the University of Texas=20
     Health Science Center here, two scientists are hard at work finding=20
     a  physical  cause for memory loss and confusion in  ailing  Desert=20
     Storm veterans.=20
       Their work is believed to be the first study of its kind on these=20
     veterans. And their theory, if they can prove it,  could be a major=20
     step  forward  in  solving  the mystery  surrounding  Persian  Gulf=20
       The  scientists  are  not  studying the full  range  of  symptoms=20
     reported  by  Persian Gulf vets.  However,  many of those  ailments=20
     could  be linked to the same problem that causes the symptoms  they=20
     are studying.=20
       The  veterans'  problems  appear  to lie in the  central  nervous=20
     system, they say. Somehow, common chemicals, such as acetone, found=20
     in  nail  polish remover,  interrupt the mechanism  that  regulates=20
     blood  flow to the brains of these veterans.  That,  in  turn,  can=20
     cause  many of the symptoms reported by Desert Storm veterans whose=20
     illnesses thus far have defied conventional diagnosis.=20
       So  for the first time in a formal study,  the blood-flow changes=20
     in these veterans'  brains are being measured as researchers try to=20
     bring  on in a laboratory the symptoms the veterans are complaining=20
       "What we're trying to do is create a model of the illness,"  said=20
     Howard  Mitzel,  the  study's leader and an assistant professor  of=20
     family  practice at the center.  He and fellow investigator  Leonid=20
     Bunegin hope to "catch this thing in the act."=20
       The  study  is  being  done on a shoestring  budget  by  research=20
     standards  --  $8,000,   with  a  lot  of  personal  equipment  and=20
     innovation thrown in.=20
       In  an  ideal study of the veterans,  they would be tested  in  a=20
     chamber  free of chemicals and pollutants and would have  chemicals=20
     introduced  to  them,  one by one,  to measure the effects of  each=20
     substance,   said  Dr.   Claudia  S.   Miller,   an  allergist  and=20
     immunologist  at  the Health Science Center.  Miller is  a  leading=20
     expert   on   Persian  Gulf  Syndrome  and  one  of   the   study's=20
       The  University of Texas study is separate from research the Army=20
     proposes to do.  The Army is willing to finance a $1.2-million test=20
     and is seeking civilian scientists to do the study.=20
       In  their  study,  Mitzel and his colleagues are testing 30  male=20
     Desert  Storm  veterans.  The group comprises 15 sick ones  and  15=20
     "controls," who do not feel ill.=20
       Veterans  who  participate  in the test are paid  $25  for  their=20
     efforts.  But  those  taking  part say they are not there  for  the=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 10
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       A   26-year-old   Army   reservist  from  San  Antonio   who   is=20
     participating in the test said he wants to help bring an end to the=20
     suffering  he and other veterans endure.  The reservist,  who asked=20
     not  to be identified,  said he learned about the study by word  of=20
       He  said  he's no sure what is making him sick.  When he  was  in=20
     Saudi  Arabia,  he said,  he was exposed to fumes from uncontrolled=20
     burning  of human and camp waste,  pesticide spraying and the  oil-
     well fires while in Saudi Arabia.=20
       He said he also took tablets to protect him from the effects of a=20
     possible nerve gas attack -- the same kind of tablets the lawmakers=20
     are  calling on the federal government to investigate as a possible=20
     source of Persian Gulf Syndrome.=20
       During  the test,  the veterans are seated in a small cubicle  in=20
     front  of  a personal computer.  Nose and mouth are covered with  a=20
     mask, and a sensor called a "transcranial Doppler" is placed on one=20
       The  veterans  are then asked to perform tasks on  the  computer,=20
     that gauge reaction time, memory and hand-eye coordination.=20
       The  veterans then repeat those tasks while breathing in a  small=20
     dose of acetone, a major ingredient of nail polish remover.=20
       The  Doppler measures the veterans'  middle cerebral artery flow;=20
     the  results  appear  on  a computer monitor and  are  recorded  on=20
     videotape.  Normally  blood flow would increase as much as  15-fold=20
     during such tasks, Bunegin said. But if the researchers'  theory is=20
     correct, there would be less of an increase, if any, in sick Desert=20
     Storm veterans, they said.=20
       The  results of the study are not expected to be disclosed  until=20
     mid-summer.  Preliminary  results,  which Mitzel said he could  not=20
     disclose, were sent to the VA,  along with a request for a grant so=20
     the study can be expanded.=20
     --REIGLE REPORT (excerpts)
               Posted in Military_People echo by Paul Sparks
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
     Relay from DStormMom:
     Hi all,
        The  following is taken from the May 25th Riegle Report.  I felt=20
     it  was  important to share with those who have not had  access  to=20
     this report. You can form your own opinions once having read it.=20
     ///////// THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT-PLEASE READ ///////////
     Pgs. 28-32
     "SARIN (GB)  -  A colorless and practically odorless liquid,  Sarin=20
     dissolves  well in water and organic solvents.   The basic military=20
     use of Sarin is as a gas and a persistent aerosol.   A highly toxic=20
     agent   with   a  clearly  defined  myopic  effect,   symptoms   of=20
     intoxication  appear  quickly without any period of latent  effect.=20
     *Sarin  has  cumulative  effects  --  that  is,   a  slow  rate  of=20
     detoxification*  independent  of its method of entry into the body. =
       According  to Joachim Krause and Charles K.  Mallory in *Chemical=20
     Weapons  in  Soviet  Military  Doctrine:  Military  and  Historical=20
     Experience,  1915-1991,*  the  progressive  signs of initial  Sarin=20
     intoxication   include   myosis   (contraction   of   the   pupil),=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 11
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     photophobia, difficulty in breathing and chest pain.(1)=20
     SOMAN (GD) - A neuro-paralytic toxic agent. Soman is a transparent,=20
     colorless, involatile liquid smelling of camphor.  Soluble in water=20
     to  a  limited degree,  Soman is absorbed into porous  and  painted=20
     surfaces.  Soman is similar to Sarin in its injurious effects,  but=20
     more  toxic.  When  it acts on the skin in either droplet or  vapor=20
     form, it causes a general poisoning of the organism.(2)=20
     TABUN (GA) - A neuro-paralytic toxic agent. Tabun is a transparent,=20
     colorless  liquid.  The industrial product is a brown liquid with a=20
     weak sweetish smell;  in small concentrations,  it smells of fruit,=20
     but  in large concentrations,  it smells of fish.  Tabun  dissolves=20
     poorly in water but well in organic solvents; it is easily absorbed=20
     into rubber products and painted surfaces.  Injury occurs upon skin=20
     contact  with  Tabun  vapor and droplets.  The symptoms  of  injury=20
     appear almost immediately. Marked myosis occurs.(3)=20
     VX  -  This colorless,  odorless,  liquid has low volatility and is=20
     poorly  soluble in water,  but dissolves well in organic  solvents.=20
     The   danger   of  pulmonary  VX  intoxication  is  determined   by=20
     meteorological  conditions  and  the delivery method  used.  VX  is=20
     thought to be very effective against respiratory organs when in the=20
     form of a thinly dispersed aerosol. The symptoms of VX intoxication=20
     are analogous to those of other nerve agents, but their development=20
     is  markedly  slower.  *As  with  other  nerve  agents,  VX  has  a=20
     cumulative effect."(4)=20
     LEWISITE -  A vesicant toxic agent,  industrial lewisite is a dark-
     brown liquid with a strong smell. Lewisite is a contact poison with=20
     practically  no  period  of latent effect.  Lewisite  vapors  cause=20
     irritation  to the eyes and upper respiratory tract.(5)   According=20
     to  the Center for Disease Control,  lewisite would cause  stinging=20
     and burning. Its smell, generally characterized as the strong smell=20
     of  geraniums,  could  be confused with the smell of  ammonia  (the=20
     reaction   to  which  is  regulated  by  pain  fibers  rather  than=20
     smell).(6)  Iraqi stores of lewisite were not located after the war=20
     according to the DoD.=20
     CYANOGEN CHLORIDE -  The French first suggested the use of cyanogen=20
     chloride as a toxic agent. *U.S.  analysts have reported that it is=20
     capable  of  penetrating gas mask filters*   Partially  soluble  in=20
     water, it dissolves well in organic solvents. It is absorbed easily=20
     into  porous  materials;  its  military state is  a  gas.  Cyanogen=20
     chloride is a quick acting toxic agent.  Upon contact with the eyes=20
     or  respiratory organs,  it injures immediately.  Lethal  exposures=20
     result in loss of consciousness, convulsions and paralysis.(7)=20
     HYDROGEN  CYANIDE -  A colorless liquid smelling of bitter almonds,=20
     hydrogen  cyanide is a very strong,  quick-acting poison.  Hydrogen=20
     cyanide  affects unprotected humans through the respiratory  organs=20
     and  during  the  ingestion  of contaminated  food  and  water.  It=20
     inhibits   the  enzymes  which  regulate  the  intra-cell  oxidant-
     restorative  process.  As a result the cells of the nervous system,=20
     especially  those affecting breathing--are injured,  which in  turn=20
     leads  to quick death.  An important feature of hydrogen cyanide is=20
     the  absence of a period of latent effect.   The military state  of=20
     hydrogen  cyanide is a gas.  The toxic an physiologic properties of=20
     hydrogen  cyanide  permit it to be used effectively in  munitions--
     predominantly  in  rocked-launched artillery.  Death  occurs  after=20
     intoxication due to paralysis of the heart. Non-lethal doses do not=20
     cause intoxication.(8)=20
     "BLISTER  AGENTS  -  According  to the material safety  data  sheet=20
     (MSDS)  for  sulfur  mustard gas (HD)  prepared by  the  U.S.  Army=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 12
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     Chemical  Research,  Development and Engineering  Center,  Aberdeen=20
     Proving Grounds,  Maryland,  'chronic exposure to HD can cause skin=20
     sensitization, chronic lung impairment, cough, shortness of breath,=20
     chest  pain,  and cancer of the mouth,  throat,  respiratory tract,=20
     skin,  and  leukemia.   It may also cause birth defects.   The U.S.=20
     Army  Chemical  and  Biological Defense Command lists  the  current=20
     detector sensitivity threshold for the M256A1 kits, a commonly used=20
     piece of chemical agent detection equipment in the Gulf War, as 2.0=20
     mg/m3.(9)   According to the MSDS for sulfur mustard,  total weight=20
     average  exposures  of greater than .003mg/m3 over an  8-hr  period=20
     requires the use of protective equipment.  Therefore, the detection=20
     kit  would  not detect the agent until the amount of agent  present=20
     exceeded  the  safety threshold by a factor of over 660.  The  M8A1=20
     automatic alarms DO NOT detect blister agent.=20
     MUSTARD  GAS  -  This is a colorless,  oily liquid which  dissolves=20
     poorly   in  water,   but  relatively  well  in  organic  solvents,=20
     petroleum,  lubricant  products,   and  other  toxic  agents.   The=20
     injurious  effect of mustard gas is associated with its ability  to=20
     inhibit many enzyme systems of the body. This,  in turn,  *prevents=20
     the  intra-cell exchange of chemicals and leads to necrosis of  the=20
     tissue.  Death  is associated mainly with necrosis of the tissue of=20
     the  central  nervous system.*  Mustard gas has a period of  latent=20
     effect  (the  first signs of injury appear after 2-12  hours),  but=20
     does not act cumulatively.  *It does not have any known antidotes.* =
     In military use it can come in gas, aerosol,  and droplet form.  It=20
     therefore  acts  through  inhalation,  cutaneously,  perorally  and=20
     directly  through the blood stream.  The toxic and physico-chemical=20
     properties  of  mustard  gas allow it to be used in  all  types  of=20
     Committee  staff has learned that Iraq *may*  have acquired any one=20
     of  a  number  of Soviet binary  novachok  ('newcomer')  series  of=20
     chemical  warfare  agent compounds or information relevant  to  the=20
     development  of  those compounds.  This series of chemical  warfare=20
     agents  reportedly  contains both lethal and  debilitating  agents.=20
     According  to  a confidential Committee source,  if the Iraqis  had=20
     obtained  samples  of these compounds they could be easily analyzed=20
     and  produced  with readily available materials.  Several of  these=20
     compounds  are described as agents that even in microdoses can have=20
     long  lasting  effects.  These  agents are  described  as  inducing=20
     myosis,  vomiting,  memory  loss,  involuntary motions and internal=20
     organ  dysfunction.  Many of these materials are also described  as=20
     having  mutagenic effects.  These materials are,  according to  the=20
     source,  stored  in  the  lipids  (body fats)  and  have  no  known=20
     antidotes.  In  addition,  according to the Committee  source,  the=20
     Soviets  were  believed to have conducted research in a  number  of=20
     dioxin-based  chemical  warfare agents,  and on at least one  agent=20
     that   could  be  used  to  contaminate  drinking  water  supplies. =
     Committee  staff  is conducting further inquiries to  determine  if=20
     Iraq may have had access to any of these compounds."(11)=20
     (1)   Joachim Krause and Charles K. Mallory, "Chemical Weapons in=20
           Soviet Military Doctrine: Military and Historical=20
           Experience. 1915-1991," (Boulder Co.: Westview Press,=20
           1992), 208); James AF. Compton, "Military Chemical and=20
           Biological Agents: Chemical and Toxicological Properties"=20
           (Caldwell, NJ; The Telford Press, Sept 1987); Material Data=20
           Sheet (MSDS) for Soman (GD), Sarin (GB) and VX, prepared by=20
           the U.S. Army Chemical Research, Development and=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 13
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

           Engineering Center, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland.=20
           (See Appendix A of the Riegle Report).=20
     (2)   Joachim Krause and Charles K. Mallory, "Chemical Weapons in
           Soviet Military Doctrine: Military and Historical=20
           Experience. 1915-1991," (Boulder Co.: Westview Press,=20
           1992), 209.=20
     (3)   Ibid, 209.
     (4)   Ibid, 210.
     (5)   Ibid, 205.
     (6)   Interview with Dr. Sanford Leffingwell, Center for Disease
           Control on Sept. 3, 1993.
     (7)   Joachim Krause and Charles K. Mallory, "Chemical Weapons in
           Soviet Military Doctrine: Military and Historical=20
           Experience. 1915-1991," (Boulder Co.: Westview Press,=20
           1992), 202; V.V. Miasnikov, "Defense Against Weapons of=20
           Mass-Destruction: A Guide" (Moscow: Voyenizdat, 1984, 82-83=20
     (8)   Joachim Krause and Charles K. Mallory, "Chemical Weapons in
           Soviet Military Doctrine: Military and Historical=20
           Experience. 1915-1991," (Boulder Co.: Westview Press,=20
           1992), 205; V.V. Miasnikov, "Defense Against Weapons of=20
           Mass-Destruction: A Guide" (Moscow: Voyenizdat, 1984, 82;=20
           Vladimir K. Pikalov, 'Toxic Agents,' "The Soviet Military=20
           Encyclopedia, Volume 6" (Moscow: Voyenizdat, 1978).=20
     (9)   This information was provided by the U.S. Army Chemical and
           Biological Defense Command, Edgewood, Area, Aberdeen=20
           Proving Ground, Maryland 21010. According to the U.S. Army=20
           the sensitivity capacity for the M256A1 detector kit is:=20
           Mustard   2.0     mg/m3 VX        0.020   mg/m3 G-Agents =20
           0.005   mg/m3 The required response time for these levels=20
           is 15 minutes. The capability and specifications of this=20
           unit are NOT classified.=20
     (10)  Vladimir K. Pikalov, 'Toxic Agents,' "The Soviet Military
           Encyclopedia, Volume 6" (Moscow: Voyenizdat, 1978); Joachim=20
           Krause and Charles K. Mallory, "Chemical Weapons in Soviet=20
           Military Doctrine: Military and Historical Experience.=20
           1915-1991," (Boulder Co.: Westview Press, 1992), 206-7.=20
     (11)  Staff Interviews, April 19th, 1994.
     **********END OF THIS SERIES FROM RIEGLE REPORT******     =20
               Posted on Military_People echo by Paul Sparks
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                        VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
     Area Mil_Issu, Jul-07-94  From: Paul Sparks Subject: GWS info
     Relay from DStormMom:
     To Nancy Capps and Lauria Brown,
        I  have tried to reach you but afraid unsuccessful.  Therefore I=20
     have asked Paul to pass this information on to you both.  You might=20
     want  to contact Melanie Ayers 910-867-7751.   Her 5 mos,  old  son=20
     died of a heart defect 7 mos.ago.   She has a lot of info.  and can=20
     put  you in contact with the right people.  Also following  article=20
     for  reading  giving credibility that there is the  possibility  of=20
     things going on with the offsprings of Gulf Vets.=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 14
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     FAMILIES  3/2/94=20
                              BY LACY MCCRARY
                          Knight-Ridder Newspapers
       Three  years after the end of the Persian Gulf War,  evidence has=20
     arisen  that the mystery illnesses afflicting some veterans of  the=20
     war may be spreading to their wives and to children born after they=20
     returned home.=20
       The  collection  of  symptoms plaguing thousands of  veterans  --=20
     nausea, fevers, diarrhea,  inflamed joints,  memory loss,  fatigue,=20
     vision problems --  has been dubbed Persian Gulf Syndrome.  Now,  a=20
     cluster  of  birth defects and other health problems  among  babies=20
     born  to veterans of a Mississippi National Guard unit that  served=20
     in the gulf has been called "alarming" by U.S.  Rep.  G.V.  "Sonny"=20
     Montgomery, D-Miss.=20
       Montgomery,  chairman  of the Veterans Affairs Committee,  held a=20
     hearing  in  Meridian,  Miss.,  in  January on what he  termed  the=20
     babies' "serious" medical problems.=20
       A spokesman for Montgomery, Jim Holley, said in an interview that=20
     13 of 15 babies born since the war to members of the unit were ill.=20
       Holley   also  said  that,   since  the  hearing,   the  Veterans=20
     Administration  has discovered that 37 of 55 babies born to members=20
     of  four  Mississippi units that served in the gulf were  suffering=20
     from various ailments, including respiratory and blood disorders.=20
       Montgomery's  committee  is investigating health complaints  from=20
     thousands of Desert Storm veterans. Their ailments have been blamed=20
     on psychiatric problems, pollution, bacterial infections, petroleum=20
     poisoning, vaccinations, chemical warfare and germ warfare.=20
       Sen Donald W Riegle Jr.,  D-Mich.,  said in a Feb 9 Senate speech=20
     that  the unexplained symptoms of veterans and "increasing evidence=20
     of  transmission to family members upon their return home from  the=20
     war" may be the result of exposure to biological weapons during the=20
       "Several  of these biological agents cause,  among other  things,=20
     fever,  vomiting,  chest  pains,  pneumonia  and inflammatory  skin=20
     diseases,  all  of which are symptoms present in thousands of  Gulf=20
     War vets and their family members," Riegle said.=20
       Riegle  asked  the Department of Health and Human  Services,  the=20
     Department  of Veterans Affairs and the Defense Department to study=20
     the  reports  of  symptoms cropping up in spouses and  children  of=20
     veterans,  assess  what if any health hazard exists,  and report to=20
     him by March 31.=20
       It  was  three years ago Sunday that the Gulf War ended  after  a=20
     swift  and smooth ground offensive by coalition forces.  The battle=20
     to explain the "invisible wounds" veterans say they received in the=20
     gulf  has been anything but smooth and swift.  In December,  the VA=20
     said  it "to date has been unable to detect any unifying  diagnosis=20
     or any unifying exposure."=20
       Maj Gen. Ronald Blanck, who heads Walter Reed Army Medical Center=20
     in  Washington,  said  the Defense Department and the VA  recognize=20
     Persian Gulf Syndrome as a valid illness.=20
       Blanck  said  in  an interview that he had "pretty much  come  to=20
     conclude"  the  mystery illness is a combination of chronic fatigue=20
     syndrome  and  multiple chemical sensitivity.  MCS,  which  is  not=20
     widely recognized by the medical community,  is hypersensitivity to=20
     a  wide  variety  of chemicals triggered by an  exposure  to  toxic=20
       "I started out as a skeptic on MCS,  and I'm a believer now,"  he=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 15
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     said. "I think it exists."=20
       The  Defense Department recently acknowledged,  after denying  it=20
     for months, that very low concentrations of chemical agents,  nerve=20
     and  mustard  gas,  were detected by the Czech military during  the=20
       As  a  result,  the  VA  has  launched a  pilot  program  at  the=20
     Birmingham,  Ala.,  VA  Medical  Center for neurological and  other=20
     tests  of  veterans  for  health problems related  to  exposure  to=20
     chemical agents.=20
       In  addition,  the VA as created special referral centers at  its=20
     hospitals  in  West Los Angeles,  Houston and Washington to  review=20
     unusual  symptoms  in  Gulf War veterans that eluded  diagnosis  at=20
     local VA medical centers.=20
       The  hearing by Montgomery's committee focused on members of  the=20
     624th Quartermaster Company of Waynesboro, Miss.=20
       "To  my knowledge this is the first report of such an  occurrence=20
     among the offspring of Gulf War veterans," Dr. Russell S. Tarver of=20
     the  VA  Medical Center in Jackson,  Miss.,  said at  the  Meridian=20
       Dr. Robert H. Roswell, executive director of a federal task force=20
     on  Persian  Gulf  War  health issues,  said  the  VA  was  "deeply=20
     concerned about that report" of sick babies.=20
       In  an interview,  he said a separate,  local task force had been=20
     organized to investigate the babies'  problems.  It consists of the=20
     department  of  pediatrics at the University  of  Mississippi,  the=20
     Jackson,  Miss.,  VA  Center,  the Centers for Disease Control  and=20
     Prevention  in Atlanta and the Mississippi state Health Department.=20
     days  after  returning  from the Persian Gulf war,  was  even  more=20
       "These  guys have all been in perfect health when they went over.=20
     They came back sick, they came back dying,  one after another.  And=20
     they say that's not abnormal. They're full of crap," he said.  Nick=20
     Roberts,  a  gulf veteran from Phenix City,  Ala.,  offered his own=20
     statistics.  He  said 28 of 33 members of his Navy reserve unit are=20
     sick. Eleven men, including him, have lymphoma,  and one man has an=20
     enlarged heart. Five spouses and several children also are sick, he=20
       Roberts and many other members of his Seabee unit have attributed=20
     their  illnesses to acts of chemical or biological warfare by  Iraq=20
     --  a  theory that the U.S.  military insists is unsupported by the=20
       Dr.  Edward  Hyman,  a New Orleans internist who says that he has=20
     successfully  treated  seven  gulf  veterans  and  three  of  their=20
     spouses,  says  that  airborne  germs of an unknown origin  are  to=20
       He  said  he couldn't extrapolate from a relatively few cases  to=20
     thousands. "I'm not that much insane.  But I'll bet you that a good=20
     50  percent  of them are in my ballpark,  if not 90  percent."  The=20
     former  Navy  physician  said he has told officials of the  VA  and=20
     military of his conclusions and "had mush thrown in my face."=20
       The  families  of those who served in the gulf knew there  was  a=20
     risk  they  might not come back alive from the war.  The shock  was=20
     unexpected  death,  long  after the fighting stopped.  And in  some=20
     families,  sickness  didn't  stop  with the  veteran.  Spouses  and=20
     children also fell ill.=20
     You can reach me at
     Subject: GWS - Legislation update
     Just in from DStormMom:
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 16
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     Hi all.....
       Senate Update:  Okay we got a compromised amendment out late last=20
     night...20mil  in legislative language instead of previous 2mil  in=20
     report  language.  10m  to epidem study includes  vets,  civ.  dod,=20
     families and 10mil for transmission and treatment type studies.  It=20
     is step in right direction.=20
       Remember this was out of Senate.  House is next then conferenced=20
     and appropriation people involvement then total These studies=20
     will be independent, peer review, unclassified Awarding of grants=20
     can take 6mos so it all takes time even after it is passed.=20
     House legislation:  summary
     Montgomery's HR 4386.
       Montgomery's had 9 cosponsors,  no senate companion bill,  no VSO=20
     endorsements.    It  simply  encouraged  the  VA  to  develop  case=20
     assessments and case definitions.  It had no specific outreach.  No=20
     provisions   for  statement  of  responsibility  for   compensation=20
     program.   Eligibility was Veteran who served in the SWA theater of=20
     operations between Aug.2,90 to date of enactment of bill.   Persian=20
     Gulf  War  Vet who became ill with an undiagnosable illness  within=20
     one year of leaving the theater.  Duration of compensation:  Limits=20
     payments  of benefits to 3 year period beginning upon enactment  of=20
     this bill regardless of whether the veteran is still ill.  Denials: =
     Va  can deny vet claim if there is merely affirmative evidence that=20
     the  condition is not service connected.   Criteria for awarding VA=20
     benefits:  no provisions.  issuance of regulations:  no provisions. =
     Reopening  of  previously denied claims Veteran would need to  know=20
     about  the act and file either a new claim or an appeal with the VA=20
     Location of claims adjudications:  No provision=20
       Research:   Survey  of  PGWV.   No report  required.   Authorizes=20
     appropriations for FY95-97 for other research.   No report required=20
     and does not require consideration of the effect on family members.=20
     EVAN'S HR4540
       Evans bill 4540 summary-  Cosponsors 53, Senate companion bill by=20
     Sen Daschle VSO endorsement:  Am legion VVA and AmVets Develop.  of=20
     case  Assessment  and definition:   Required within 120 days or  VA=20
     must  explain  why they are not ready.  Outreach:   Requires VA  to=20
     establish  comprehensive outreach to PGWV and family ie  newsletter=20
     and  toll free tele.  no.  Statement of Responsibility:   Specifies=20
     that when the etiology of a specific condition in vet is unknown it=20
     is the responsibility of the gov't to give the vet.  the benefit of=20
     the doubt and award benefits until the scientific evidence warrants=20
     otherwise.  Who is eligible:  Vet who served in SWA theater between=20
     Aug  2,90  and  date when the conflict is declared over  (not  done=20
     yet).   PGWV  who became ill with an undiagnosable illness within 3=20
     years of leaving active duty.=20
       Duration   of  Compensation:    Ill/Disabled  vet  would  receive=20
     benefits  until  they  got  better  or it  was  proven  that  their=20
     condition was not service connected.=20
       Evans   was  consistent  with  existing  statues  and  Montgomery=20
     departed from existing statues.=20
       Denials: Va can deny a veterans claim if there is a preponderance=20
     of evidence that the condition is not service connected.=20
       Criteria for awarding VA benefits:
     Specified   the  parameters  for  awarding  VA  Benefits  including=20
     instructions on the rating schedule and acceptance of lay evidence. =
       Issuance  of  Regulations Preliminary regulations must be  issued=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 17
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     within 90 days and a final one within 130 days...=20
       Reopening  of claims:   VA would need to reopen and  readjudicate=20
     such  claims.    Location  of  claims  adjudication   one  location=20
       Research:   Comprehensive  review  of the medical records of  all=20
     PGWV.    VA   to   report  findings  to   Congress.    Longitudinal=20
     Epidemiological  study  to fully assess the health consequences  of=20
     military  service in the PG War on vets and their immediate  family=20
     members.   Supervised  by  the  National Academy of  Science  or  a=20
     similar  nongovernmental scientific organization.   Annual  reports=20
     submitted  to Congress.  Authorizes an additional 5 mil for each of=20
     fiscal  years  95-98  for  other studies which  could  further  our=20
     understanding of the Health risks and affects of service during the=20
     PGW  as  well  as the most affect means of  treating  those  health=20
     effects.  Now to the compromise.......=20
       Compromised  by  Rep.  Slattery as a substitute to  HR4386.  Case=20
     Assessment protocol and case definitions  similar to EVANS. The sec=20
     of  VA would have to provide an annual status report,  beginning  6=20
     months  prior  to  date  of enactment to  the  committees  on  Vet.=20
       Outreach  similar to Evans newsletter on a quarterly basis to be=20
     mailed to PGWV and surviving family member.=20
       Compensation  modeled after Evans.  Compensation would be paid to=20
     veteran  who served in the theater during the PGW suffering from  a=20
     chronic  disability  resulting from an undiagnosible  illness  that=20
     manifested before the later of the (a)October 1,96 or (b) two years=20
     after leaving the SWA theater while on active duty.=20
       Compensation  would be paid for three years.   This period  would=20
     automatically  be extended for another three years if at the end of=20
     the  first period,  the illness still could not be diagnosed.   The=20
     legislation's  report  will also state that if at the end of the  6=20
     year   period   the  cause  of  the  illnesses  is  still   unknown=20
     compensation payments should continue.=20
       The  report  also encourage the SEC to continue processing  these=20
     claims  at  a  single  Va regional office and  stipulate  that  the=20
     payment of benefits under this act does not preclude the receipt of=20
     retroactive  benefits  if  the cause of these  illnesses  are  ever=20
     determined and service connected.=20
       Research:  Similar to EVANS.  The Act authorizes, contingent upon=20
     the  NAS  recommendation,  an epidemiological study on  the  health=20
     consequences of service in the PGW.   The Act also directs the sec.=20
     to  contract  with  NAS  or a  similar  nongovernmental  scientific=20
     organization for the supervision and oversight of this study.  This=20
     act  also authorizes a survey of PGWV and other research activities=20
     to be conducted between 1995 and 1997.=20
       This is a brief summary of each of the bills. Was sent to me from=20
     American Legion. They tried to break it down and analyse.=20
     Slattery's was accepted as a substitution and I believe it came out=20
     of  committee  and  past the House.   Bill was also  introduced  to=20

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 18
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                         Not for eating or drinking

                                Cancer Facts
                         National Cancer Institute
                       National Institutes of Health
     "In answer to your questions about Agent Orange ..."
                        (Date Last Modified: 10/91)
     Agent Orange was a mixture of herbicides used between 1963 and 1971=20
     during the Vietnam War.  Named for the orange-striped containers in=20
     which it was stored,  Agent Orange was employed mainly to defoliate=20
     forest  trees.   It  also  was used to destroy the  enemy's  crops. =
     Agent   Orange  contained  two  chlorophenoxy  herbicides:   2,4,5-
     trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) and 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic=20
     acid  (2,4-D).   These  herbicides  were first used in  the  United=20
     States  in the mid-1940s to control broadleaf weeds in cereal grain=20
     fields, pastures, and turf.  They also were used to remove unwanted=20
     plants from rangeland, forests, noncropland, and waterways.  By the=20
     mid-1960s,  chlorophenoxy  herbicides had become the most important=20
     class of herbicides in the United States.
     During  the  1970s,  health concerns about the  herbicides  brought=20
     about  Government restrictions that caused a sharp decrease in  the=20
     manufacture and use of 2,4,5-T.  Since 1983, the use of 2,4,5-T has=20
     been  prohibited in the United States.   Many other countries  also=20
     have  ended  its  use.   Of  additional concern  is  a  contaminant=20
     commonly  called  dioxin  (2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin,  or=20
     TCDD),  which  often  forms when 2,4,5-T is manufactured.   Of  the=20
     approximately  75 chemicals in the dioxin family,  TCDD is the most=20
     toxic.  It can cause chloracne, a skin disease, and is suspected to=20
     cause some kinds of cancer.   The TCDD level in Agent Orange varied=20
     from 0.02 to 54 micrograms per gram of 2,4,5-T.
     Farmers,   forestry  workers,   and  Vietnam  veterans  exposed  to=20
     chlorophenoxy  herbicides have been studied to see whether they had=20
     a  higher incidence of cancer than would be expected.   The results=20
     of these studies have been conflicting and inconclusive.
     In  1984,  Congress mandated that studies be conducted to determine=20
     whether  service  in  Vietnam could be related  to  adverse  health=20
     effects.   In  one  study,  scientists investigated  the  long-term=20
     health  effects  of  military service  in  Vietnam;  another  study=20
     focused  specifically  on the health effects of exposure  to  Agent=20
     Orange in Vietnam;  and a third study looked at the increased risk,=20
     if  any,  that  Vietnam veterans would develop any of six  specific=20
     kinds of cancer.
     In March 1990, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)=20
     released the results of the last of its studies.  The investigators=20
     reported  a  50-percent higher incidence of non-Hodgkin's  lymphoma=20
     (NHL),  a cancer of the immune system,  among Vietnam veterans than=20
     among veterans who did not serve in Vietnam.  However,  the studies=20
     could not show that this increased incidence is related to exposure=20
     to Agent Orange.  For example,  Navy veterans who served on vessels=20
     off  the coast of Vietnam tended to have a higher rate of NHL  than=20
     did  veterans based on land,  and veterans who served in the region=20
     of  heaviest  Agent  Orange  use tended to have  a  somewhat  lower=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 19
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     incidence  than  veterans who served in other regions  of  Vietnam. =
     The  CDC could not determine why the Navy veterans had an increased=20
     incidence  of NHL.   No increased incidence was found for the other=20
     five  cancers  in  the  study  (soft  tissue  and  other  sarcomas,=20
     Hodgkin's disease, and nasal, nasopharyngeal, and liver cancers).
     Following  the  release  of the results of  the  CDC  studies,  the=20
     Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) announced that=20
     VA  would begin awarding compensation to Vietnam veterans with NHL. =
     Vietnam  veterans with NHL will receive monthly disability payments=20
     for the rest of their lives.  A short time later,  it was announced=20
     that  Vietnam  veterans with soft tissue sarcomas are eligible  for=20
     disability payments even though the CDC studies failed to show that=20
     they  are at increased for this kind of cancer.   Vietnam  veterans=20
     suffering  from  chloracne  and  peripheral  neuropathy,   a  nerve=20
     disease,  also  are eligible for benefits.   The VA recently stated=20
     that  no  connection  between  exposure to  Agent  Orange  and  the=20
     development  of  lung cancer has been shown and  denied  disability=20
     benefits for Vietnam veterans with this disease.
     In 1990, National Cancer Institute researchers reported the results=20
     of  a  study  showing  an increased risk of  testicular  tumors  in=20
     military  working  dogs who served in Vietnam during  the  conflict=20
     there.  Because the carcinogenic (cancer-causing)  risk to dogs can=20
     be a useful indicator of carcinogenic risk to humans, another study=20
     was  initiated  to  determine  whether Vietnam service  led  to  an=20
     increased risk of testicular cancer in humans.  The results of this=20
     study  showed  a  twofold increased risk of  testicular  cancer  in=20
     Vietnam  veterans.   However,  identification of specific  factors,=20
     such  as exposure to Agent Orange,  could not be implicated as  the=20
     cause of this increase.
     For additional information about Agent Orange, contact:
          Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
            1600 Clifton Road NE
            Mail Stop F16
            Atlanta, GA  30333
          U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
            Environmental Medicine Office
            810 Vermont Avenue NW
            Washington, DC  20420
          Disabled American Veterans
            807 Maine Avenue SW
            Washington, DC  20024
     The  Cancer  Information Service (CIS),  a program of the  National
     Cancer  Institute,  is  a nationwide telephone service  for  cancer=20
     patients   and  their  families,   the  public,   and  health  care=20
     professionals.  CIS information specialists have extensive training=20
     in   providing  up-to-date  and  understandable  information  about=20
     cancer.   They  can answer questions in English and Spanish and can=20
     send  free  printed  material.   In  addition,  CIS  offices  serve=20
     specific geographic areas and have information about cancer-related=20
     services  and resources in their region.   The toll-free number  of=20
     the CIS is 1-800-4-CANCER (1-800-422-6237)
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 20
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                       _     ______   _______  __    _  _______
                      /\\    H    M   H        H\\   H  HHHHHHH
                     /  \\   H        H        H \\  H     H
                    /=3D=3D=3D=3D\\  H   HHH  HHH      H  \\ H     H
                   /      \\ H_____H  H______  H   \\H     H
              ______    ______      _     __    _  ______   _______
              H     H  H     /)    /\\    H\\   H  H    M   H
              H     H  H____//    /  \\   H \\  H  H        H
              H     H  H   \\    /=3D=3D=3D=3D\\  H  \\ H  H   HHH  HHH
              H_____H  H    \\  /      \\ H   \\H  H_____M  H______
                                .  _  .  _  .  .
                            -.- . -   .   - . -. -  .
                         - -  -   - . -   -  -    -  .-
                        -   .   .           .    -  -  -.
                      - .            . .  .    .   .  . -.
                    -.    .  .     .   U   S .  -        -.
                   -     .      .     .  .  -    .  . -   -.
                  -  .        .   .  -  -   .         .   -.
                  - .  .. V I E T N A M  V E T E R A N  . _ -
                 -   .   .    .    _ _   _ . _-_ .    -     -
                 - .            - -   -_- -_-xxx _ -.  . - .-.
                  - . .  .  .  - XXXXXxxXXXXXXXXXXXx -. - .- .
                  -    .  . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-.  .--.
                  - .-   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -.- -
                    .-.  XXXXXXXX   ]XXXXXXXXX  ]XXXXXXXX  .-  -
                     -.   XXXXXX       XXXXX      XXXXXX    -.- -
                    --      XXXXXX     XXXXXX    XXXXXX     --
                    -         XXXXXXXXX X'`XXX XXXXXXX      Y
                    Y          XXXXXXXXX    XXXXX XXX
                                XXXXXXX X X XXXXXXXX
                                 XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXX
                                 XXX XX X XXX XX XX
                                 XXXX            XX
                                  XXX XX XX XX XXXX
                                   XXX[ XX XX XXX
               "  I t ' s    o n l y    t e e n a g e    a c n e !  "
                                                   -Robert Nimmo-

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 21
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                            Three Squares and ...

                             Homeless Veterans
                             A Special Report
           July/August, 1994 National Vietnam Veterans Coalition
                          Input by: Gjoseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                          VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     According  to  reliable sources,  almost one-quarter of a  million=20
     American veterans are homeless.  By all indications,  the "safety-
     net" designed to help these people simply doesn't work.
       Earlier  this year,  the U.S.  Senate Veterans Affairs Committee=20
     conducted  hearings  where it was determined that the  "...demands=20
     for  services  to homeless veterans exceeds VA program  capacity." =20
     (General Accounting Office - GAO/HEHS-94-98).
       The  following facts on homeless veterans were disclosed at  the=20
       "Veterans are generally considered to constitute about one-third=20
     of the homeless population in the United States.  No one knows the=20
     exact number of homeless individuals.  However, on any given night=20
     in  the  United States,  an estimated 500,000 to 600,000  homeless=20
     people live on the streets or in shelters,  and 150,000 to 250,000=20
     of these are believed to be veterans.   According to VA officials,=20
     98  percent of all homeless veterans are male,  40 percent  suffer=20
     from serious mental illness, and, with considerable overlap, about=20
     half suffer from alcohol or other drug abuse.  In addition,  about=20
     10  percent of homeless veterans suffer from post-traumatic stress=20
     disorder.   The  over-representation  of veterans  among  homeless=20
     persons  is  specific  to younger veterans who served in  the  All=20
     Volunteer Force (AVF) ...
       VA's  current  programs  constitute a small portion of  what  is=20
     likely  needed to fully address the needs of the homeless  veteran=20
     population.  Local communities provide emergency services of food,=20
     clothing,  and  shelter  to veterans who are part of  the  overall=20
     homeless  population,  and  VA  concentrates its  efforts  on  (1)=20
     serving  these  veterans'  medical needs,  (2)  serving a  limited=20
     number of homeless in its HCMI, DCHV,  and other programs designed=20
     to address homelessness, (3)  providing monetary benefits to those=20
     who  are  eligible,   and  (4)   linking  homeless  veterans  with=20
     assistance available from other sources in the community.  But the=20
     demand  for  services to homeless veterans far exceeds VA  program=20
     capacity...  in an era of tight budget constraints,  enhancing the=20
     services  for  the homeless could require curtailing  services  to=20
     other veterans.
       (C)urrent   law  prohibits  VA  from  providing  any  assistance=20
     whatsoever to a sizable portion of the homeless veteran population=20
     and significantly restricts what VA can provide to the rest.
       First,  VA's  specialized  homeless assistance programs are  all=20
     health care programs,  which can treat only eligible veterans with=20
     medical problems - and are largely limited to those with diagnosed=20
     mental health disorders, including substance abuse problems.
       Second, VA has no authority to provide housing directly,  except=20
     in  the  context  of  transitional  housing  that  is  part  of  a=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 22
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     therapeutic treatment program.  In addition,  homeless veterans do=20
     not  qualify for VA-insured home loans because of their  extremely=20
     low incomes.
       Third,  most homeless veterans are not currently eligible for VA=20
     educational or vocational rehabilitation entitlement,  which could=20
     help them gain productive employment.
       Moreover, because of other eligibility rules,  VA cannot provide=20
     homeless veterans with a range of medical treatment and assistance=20
     they desperately need, such as regular outpatient dental care.
       Because of these statutory limitations, VA could not even reach,=20
     much  less  fully serve,  a large segment of the homeless  veteran=20
     population even if we had unlimited resources.  And, because we do=20
     not  have  unlimited  resources,  we cannot even provide  all  VA-
     eligible  homeless  veterans  with the help they  need  to  escape=20
     homelessness.  Along with every other Federal agency, VA is facing=20
     budget constraint - and will continue to face these constraints in=20
     the foreseeable future.
       VA's  Social Work Service has Homeless Coordinators in every  VA=20
     medical center who work with the over 25,000 homeless veterans who=20
     leave  VA inpatient care each year.   These Homeless  Coordinators=20
     work  to  help  these  veterans avoid  homelessness  by  providing=20
     referrals  to  VA  and  non-VA  community  care  and  housing  and=20
     employment  assistance,  ensuring  receipt of available  benefits,=20
     linking  up  the  veterans with  family  and  friends,  and,  when=20
     possible and appropriate, providing post-discharge follow-up...
       VA's  202  Readjustment  Counselling Service Vet  Centers  offer=20
     special  outpatient social services,  counseling and referrals  to=20
     war  zone veterans,  and their Homeless Veteran Coordinators serve=20
     over 10,000 homeless veterans each year...
       (E)ach  of VBA's 58 Regional Offices has assigned a staff member=20
     to  be  a  special  VBA  Homeless  Coordinator.    These  Homeless=20
     Coordinators   annually   make  over  3,000  visits  to   homeless=20
     facilities  and  over 3,500 contacts with non-VA agencies  working=20
     with the homeless,  and provide over 12,000 homeless veterans with=20
     benefits  counseling and referrals to other VA programs.   VBA has=20
     also  instituted new procedures to reduce the processing time  for=20
     homeless  veterans'  benefits claims.   Although most VBA Homeless=20
     Coordinators do their outreach and service to homeless veterans on=20
     top of their regular duties, with recent increases in our homeless=20
     assistance  funding,  VA  has  been  able to  fund  full-time  VBA=20
     homeless outreach staff at eleven VA Regional Offices...
       VA's 57 Homeless Chronically Mentally Ill Veterans program sites=20
     provide extensive outreach, physical and psychiatric health exams,=20
     treatment,  referrals,  and  ongoing  case management to  homeless=20
     veterans  with mental health problems (including substance abuse). =20
     As appropriate,  the HCMI program places homeless veterans needing=20
     more  intensive  treatment  into one of over  125  community-based=20
     facilities  run  by  nonprofit  providers under  contract  to  VA. =20
     Through  these  contracts,  VA  directs over $10  million  to  the=20
     nonprofit  providers  each year.   The program serves over  12,000=20
     homeless veterans each year, with over 3,000 receiving residential=20
     treatment.   Of those veterans who stick with the HCMI program and=20
     "graduate"   from   the  residential  care  component,   over  90%=20
     experience  significant  improvements  regarding  their  substance=20
     abuse problems, approximately 90%  move on to permanent housing or=20
     some other institutional setting, and over three-quarters of those=20
     able  to work have full or part-time jobs.   Unfortunately,  about=20
     45%  of  the homeless veterans who enter the residential treatment=20
     component  either abandon the program or are expelled for  serious=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 23
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     rule violations (e.g., violence or active substance abuse)...
       In   VA's   Compensated  Work/Therapeutic   Residence   Program,=20
     disadvantaged  at  risk  and homeless veterans live in one  of  37=20
     CWT/TR  community-based  supervised group homes while working  for=20
     pay  in  VA's  Compensated  Work Therapy Program  (also  known  as=20
     Veterans  Industries).   Four  program  sites  with  seven  houses=20
     exclusively serve homeless veterans.
       HUD-VASH.   In  this  joint  Support Housing  program  with  the=20
     Department of Housing and Urban Development,  VA staff at 19 sites=20
     provide  ongoing  case management and other needed  assistance  to=20
     place  homeless  veterans  in permanent housing supported  by  600=20
     specially-designated  HUD rental assistance vouchers and then help=20
     them stay in the housing long-term...
       SSA-VA  Outreach.   In this four-site pilot project with  Social=20
     Security  Administration,  HCMI  and  Homeless  Domiciliary  staff=20
     coordinate  outreach and benefits certification with SSA staff  to=20
     increase  the  number  of  veterans  receiving  SSA  benefits  and=20
     otherwise assist in their rehabilitation...
       VA's 31 CDHV program sites provide comprehensive biopsychosocial=20
     rehabilitation  services  specifically  intended  to  return  each=20
     veteran  to independent community living.   Addressing the complex=20
     causes  and results of homelessness in the veteran population in a=20
     holistic  manner,  this  program assists over 3,000  patients  per=20
     year.  Of  those  veterans  who stick with the  DCHV  program  and=20
     "graduate," about 90%  or more experience significant improvements=20
     regarding   their   substance  abuse  and  other  heal   problems,=20
     approximately  98%  move  on  to permanent housing or  some  other=20
     institutional  setting,  and over two-thirds of those able to work=20
     have full or part-time jobs...
       Drop-In  Centers.   These  programs provide a daytime  sanctuary=20
     where  homeless  veterans ca clean up,  wash  their  clothes,  and=20
     participate   in  a  variety  of  therapeutic  and  rehabilitative=20
       VA's Comprehensive Homeless Centers (CHCs)  place the full range=20
     of VA homeless efforts in a single medical center's catchment area=20
     and   coordinate   their  administration  within   a   centralized=20
     framework.  With extensive collaboration with non-VA efforts, VA's=20
     CHCs  in Dallas and Brooklyn provide a comprehensive continuum  of=20
     care  that reaches out to homeless veterans and helps them  escape=20
       VA  program and staff have actively participated in each of  the=20
     Stand  Downs  for  Homeless Veterans run by  local  coalitions  in=20
     various  cities.   In wartime stand downs,  front line troops  are=20
     removed  to  a  place  of  relative safety  for  rest  and  needed=20
     assistance before returning to combat.  Similarly, peacetime stand=20
     downs give homeless veterans 2-3 days of safety and security where=20
     they  can obtain food,  shelter,  clothing,  and a range of  other=20
     assistance,   including   VA-provided   health   care,    benefits=20
     certification, and linkages with other programs...
       Acquired  Property Sales for Homeless Providers.   This  program=20
     makes  all  the properties VA obtains through foreclosures on  VA-
     insured   mortgages  available  for  sale  to  homeless   provider=20
     organizations at a discount of 20 to 50 percent...
       To  expand  resources directed to assist homeless  veterans  and=20
     improve  coordination  of  services,  VA  has  developed  numerous=20
     partnerships  at the local level with public and private  agencies=20
     and   nonprofit   organizations,    including   veterans   service=20
       In FY1993,  VA directed less than $50 million to its specialized=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 24
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     homeless programs.  This year,  VA is directing almost $70 million=20
     to homeless assistance...
       Taken  together,  the new funding has enabled us to support  the=20
       -8 new HCMI programs and two expansions;
       -13 HCHV Outreach and Supported Housing initiatives;
       -One new and four expanded CWT programs;
       -Two projects to improve eligible homeless veterans access to VA=20
        and Social Security Benefits;
       -One   augmented  Psychiatric  Residential  Rehabilitation   and=20
        Treatment Programs (PRRTP) for homeless veterans;
       -Two new and two expanded DCHV Programs;
       -40 Stand Downs for Homeless Veterans; and
       -Several new HUD-VASH programs.
       In addition,  the $8 million provided by Congress to support the=20
     implementation  of  Public Law 102-590 has been allocated for  the=20
     purposes described in law as follows:
       -$1.6   million  to  support  four  new  Comprehensive  Homeless=20
       Centers.  VAMC Pittsburgh (Highland Drive)  has been selected as=20
       the  site  for one of these new Comprehensive Homeless  Centers. =20
       Three other VA facilities are under consideration.
       -$876,000  to  support VBA Counselors to do  full-time  homeless=20
     outreach  in  conjunction with VA's homeless assistance  programs. =20
     To  date,  11  VA  medical centers have received  funds  for  this=20
       -$5.5 million for the Homeless Veterans Providers Grant/Per Diem=20
     Program.   VA  is developing regulations for this  program,  which=20
     will  provide loans and per diem payments to public and  nonprofit=20
     providers of transitional assistance to homeless veterans...
       (A)  new VA Transitional Housing Loan Program will provide loans=20
     of  up  to  $4,500  to nonprofit  organizations  providing  leased=20
     transitional housing assistance to substance abusing veterans.  VA=20
     will  make  the  loans on a first-come-first-served basis  from  a=20
     revolving  fund  of  $100,000,  which  VA will  receive  from  the=20
     Department of the Treasury...
       VA  is  playing  an active role in the development  of  the  new=20
     Federal  Plan  to Break the Cycle of Homelessness,  which will  be=20
     issued soon.   The new Federal Plan will call from the development=20
     of  community-based comprehensive continuums of care for  homeless=20
       Our  unique vantage point stems from administering a program for=20
     homeless  veterans  for  the past six years under the  Stewart  B.=20
     McKinney  Homeless  Assistance  Act.   Our program is  called  the=20
     Homeless Veterans Reintegration Project (HVRP)...
       Under  the  grant  program,  grantees are given  flexibility  to=20
     provide the mix of supportive and employment and training services=20
     to accomplish the task of reintegration of homeless veterans.
       The  success  of this demonstration project to date makes  it  a=20
     viable  model for serving homeless veterans and returning them  to=20
     the  mainstream.   What  makes the program work is a design  built=20
     around three main elements:
       First,  OUTREACH  is  done by our grantees to  provide  homeless=20
     veterans  with information about the program and encouragement  to=20
     avail  themselves of its services.   This outreach is performed in=20
     our  program by former homeless veterans.   They can identify with=20
     the  veteran  as  a veteran because they know exactly  what  being=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 25
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     homeless means.
       The  second  element  of the program is that  it  is  Employment=20
     Focused...   Job   counseling,   resume  preparation,   on-the-job=20
     training,  job search techniques and job envelopment and placement=20
     are among the services provided by our grantees.
       The  third element of the program is Linkages with other service=20
     deliverers  who can provide support such as housing,  education or=20
     training  benefits the veterans are eligible for and entitled  to,=20
     work clothes and tools,  and treatment for substance abuse or Post=20
     Traumatic  Stress Disorder,  problems that hinder  recovery.   The=20
     Local Working Committee (LWC) that we require to be formed by each=20
     project  operator,  is  the agent for coordinating this  necessary=20
     support  with other agencies.   The LWC's are comprised of  state,=20
     Federal,  and  local agencies and organizations involved with  the=20
     homeless  or veterans.   Through the LWCs,  our project  operators=20
     gain access to job placement and training resources available from=20
     such  agencies.   The Homeless Veterans Reintegration Project  has=20
     had  a  positive impact on a great many of the lives of  the  over=20
     25,000 veterans it has served.
       When  defense installations are closed and turned over to  local=20
     communities, the first program on each base should be a contingent=20
     of  homeless veterans assigned the task of  maintaining,  securing=20
     and cleaning up the facilities.   After all,  who knows better how=20
     to  run  the infrastructure of these facilities than the  soldiers=20
     and  sailors who served there in the past?   The environmental and=20
     ballistic  clean-up  operations are ideal programs which not  only=20
     provide  tasks the government is going to have to do  anyway,  but=20
     also  are  excellent training programs that would result in  high-
     payment job skills.
       We  appreciate  DOD's concern for getting the local  communities=20
     involved in the decision making process of how these installations=20
     should be used...
       Homeless  veterans in costal communities could be served by  the=20
     use of surplus U.S. Navy Barracks Barges and Tenders.   The barges=20
     can  sleep  hundreds of individuals and the tenders  are  floating=20
       Lead abatement and asbestos detection and removal are key public=20
     health  issues  throughout  much  of  the  country.   There  is  a=20
     significant  lack  of properly trained individuals and firms  with=20
     skills   in  the  management  and  abatement  of  these  dangerous=20
     problems.   Funds  should  be made available for  CBSs  (Community=20
     based   organizations)(by  the  Department  of  Health  and  Human=20
     Services)  to  train  homeless  veterans  in the  skills  of  site=20
     testing, abatement methods, and waste disposal procedures.   These=20
     opportunities  should lead not only to potential employment but to=20
     create  entrepreneurial  opportunities  for these  vets  to  begin=20
     businesses  of their own and employ other vets in helping to erase=20
     these health hazards...
       The  current leadership at HUD (Department of Housing and  Urban=20
     Affairs) should be applauded for its grasp of the homeless problem=20
     and its innovative steps to resolve it.  Their budget proposal for=20
     next  year  is  realistic and will have a positive impact  on  the=20
       Unfortunately,  there seems to be little recognition of the need=20
     for  veteran specific programs.   For example,  earlier this month=20
     funds  were awarded for "Innovative Homeless Programs"  with  less=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 26
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     than 2% going specifically to serve the 30% to 35% of the homeless=20
     who are veterans.   And this is not due to a lack of effort on the=20
     part of local veteran programs; a substantial number of community-
     based veteran programs made proposals...
       The  Department of Veterans Affairs offers benefits to  veterans=20
     which can provide up to $20,760 per year tax-free,  in addition to=20
     all medical, psychological, and dental care as well as vocational,=20
     educational,  and  rehabilitative  services.   These benefits  are=20
     considerably more generous than those offered through either state=20
     or local social service agencies.
       Many   states   and  some  cities  also  have  funds   available=20
     exclusively for needy veterans and their families.   Additionally,=20
     there   is  massive  network  of  thousands  of  Veteran   Service=20
     Organizations...  who  have funding opportunities for veterans  in=20
       Why are these generous resources overlooked?   After substantial=20
     research,  we  have found that case managers and shelter operators=20
     in non-veteran programs simply are not aware that they exist...
       In  1992,  an estimated 10,000 homeless veterans found rest  and=20
     safety, a variety of services and a helping hand,  at more than 35=20
     innovative programs called "StandDowns."
       Almost  as important is the incredible increase in a community's=20
     awareness  of the plight of the one-third of the homeless who  are=20
     veterans  which takes place with a StandDown.   When 500  homeless=20
     vets show up at one time in Minneapolis, MN or in St.  Petersburg,=20
     FL, the public begins to recognize that there is a real problem of=20
     homelessness  among veterans.  StandDowns are not the solution  to=20
     homelessness  but they are an opportunity to create an  atmosphere=20
     conducive  to  change and recovery.   It is not a hand-out  but  a=20
     hand-up, extended by a grateful, caring community.
       ...Although  African-American  veterans make up only 9%  of  the=20
     total veteran population, they represent between 38 and 40% of the=20
     total  homeless veteran population.   It is crucial that veterans'=20
     advocates  and  providers  of services to this group  are  quickly=20
     given  the tools with which they can take aggressive,  affirmative=20
     steps toward correcting this tragic imbalance.
       What  are  these  aggressive steps?   The same  things  that  we=20
     recognized  in working with substance abusers,  that diet,  living=20
     habits,   cultural   distinctions  and  previous  experience  were=20
     important in the recovery process...  we must now apply those same=20
     criteria  to  dealing with the African-American homeless  veteran. =20
     Providers have to be sensitized to their needs...
       Earlier  talked  about  recent Innovative  Homeless  Initiatives=20
     funding  made available from HUD and from the VA,  and I gave  due=20
     credit  to these initiatives.   But I must comment here on what  I=20
     call  a lack of innovation on the part of HUD in dispensing  these=20
     funds.   When,  in  a  Northeast town like Boston that serves  the=20
     region of New England,  decisions ave to be made whether to fund a=20
     shelter which warehouses homeless veterans or fund a program which=20
     takes  them from homelessness to homeownership...  when  veterans'=20
     agencies  are in competition with each other instead of being able=20
     to  work together to build a continuum of care for these  national=20
     heroes... it is a sad commentary on the state of veterans affairs.
       (M)ore  flexibility is needed to permit VA to provide outpatient=20
     dentistry,  eye  examinations and eye glasses,  and other critical=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 27
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     outpatient  services,  such  as  podiatry  to  homeless  veterans. =20
     Current  eligibility  criteria  do not allow VA to  provide  these=20
     services unless a veteran who is not in the highest mandatory care=20
     category is a long-term inpatient.  Also,  VA must be provided the=20
     flexibility to implement an effective homeless prevention strategy=20
     so  that  veterans  are not just sent back  to  the  streets,  but=20
     rather,  provided interim housing until job counseling,  training,=20
     and placement service can be started.
       In  connection,  the  Homeless Veterans'  Reintegration  Project=20
     (HVRP) whish is operated by the Veterans'  Employment and Training=20
     Service (VETS)  at the Department of Labor would serve just such a=20
     role.  By law, HVRP grantees cannot serve veterans who have a drug=20
     or  alcohol  abuse [problem].   These people must be  referred  to=20
     treatment.   Cooperation  between local HVRP grantees and local VA=20
     facilities  has  been fostered by VETS,  but cannot  be  mandated. =20
     However,  with  the size of the HVRP program,  The American Legion=20
     believes  that  a much more formal status must be  achieved.   The=20
     current  Memorandum  of Understanding (MOU)  does not address  the=20
     homeless issue...
       The  Department  of  Veterans Affairs sponsored  a  Homelessness=20
     Summit  in Washington D.C.  to discuss various approaches to  this=20
     problem.   Several  local  organizations presented  the  following=20
     material  and  information in their methods of  treating  homeless=20
       In  order  to  provide a better sense of how  the  program  will=20
     actually  function,   let's  walk  through  the  facility  with  a=20
     hypothetical  case of a veteran we will call "John."   John walked=20
     into the Center at 0900 hours this morning.  After passing through=20
     a metal detector and being searched by security personnel, John is=20
     given a seat in the "bull pen."  At 0940 hours John is interviewed=20
     by an intake counsellor, a DD201 (personnel) file is started,  and=20
     a  complete medical and personal history is taken.   John's  DD214=20
     (military  file)  is  requested via fax from  St.  Louis,  Defense=20
     Records Section.  1105 hours, John is escorted to "sick bay" for a=20
     complete physical by a V.A. Nurse,  who staffs sick bay 40 hours a=20
     week.   John  surrenders all pills in his possession at this time. =20
     Medication is tightly controlled.
       Once  John's  medical needs are met,  he is assigned to a  squad=20
     leader  who  escorts him to the showers for a  thorough  cleaning,=20
     then  to  the  supply room for a complete issue  of  clothing  and=20
     bedding, then a haircut.  It's now 1315 hours and John is assigned=20
     a  bunk and a wall locker,  and taken to the Mess Hall for  lunch. =20
     The  orientation continues in the afternoon with visits to the Job=20
     Placement Office as well as a briefing by the Finance Office.   In=20
     addition,  appointments  are made for John with the legal,  dental=20
     and optical services sections over the next couple of days, all of=20
     which are run by volunteers.
       John will be a resident at the facility for the next 3 months to=20
     a  year depending on his personal situation.   During this time he=20
     will  spend at least 4 hours per week performing detail work (K.P.=20
     maintenance,  housekeeping,  laundry,  etc.).   He will wake up at=20
     0545  hours  Monday through Friday.   He will work  between  10-40=20
     hours  per week,  putting a minimum of 50%  of his earnings into a=20
     savings account,  for use when he is ready to move into individual=20
     housing.  In  addition,  he  will attend various  counselling  and=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 28
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     treatment sessions, attend training sessions and assist his fellow=20
       John,  as  a homeless veteran,  is not unique.   It is estimated=20
     that  approximately  30%  of homeless males are veterans.   It  is=20
     clear  that this type of program provides a structured environment=20
     within  which  the  homeless veterans can get themselves  back  on=20
     track,  rebuilding self-esteem,  which is the key component on the=20
     road  to recovery.   This program works!   A comparable program in=20
     Boston boasts a success rate of over 80%.
       ...was  able to convince the Governor to establish a 75 bed drug=20
     rehab  program for veterans and got the VA and the City to sign  a=20
     formal  agreement  to establish a 30 bed homeless veterans  intake=20
     and  assessment  shelter  in  Bellvue  Hospital  adjacent  to  the=20
     Manhattan  VAMC,  which would be staffed by two VA social workers. =20
     JVC  lobbied the VA for a 50 bed domiciliary in St.  Albans  VAMC;=20
     for  the continuation of Project TORCH,  a drop-in center for  the=20
     Brooklyn VAMC in downtown Brooklyn;  and for a HCMI program in the=20
     regional  office  of  the VA in Manhattan.   JVC got the  City  to=20
     create  a 150 bed,  single-room occupancy resident in East  Harlem=20
     for  veterans and supported the efforts of the Black Veterans  for=20
     Social  Justice  to obtain a State housing grant to develop  a  15=20
     unit apartment house for homeless veterans with families.  And, in=20
     one  of  their  best efforts JVC got the State  Office  of  Mental=20
     Health  to pay for two psychiatric social workers,  who will  work=20
     with  two VA social workers,  in a second City-funded  single-room=20
     occupancy  residence  in the Bronx,  which will be the first  true=20
     Federal,  STate  and City joint venture.   It should be noted that=20
     this  residence will be operated by a non-profit,  community-based=20
       Client responsibilities:
       -Remain drug and alcohol free by developing and living a 12 Step=20
       -Share household duties daily;
       -Accept job counseling, job training and work;
       -Pay 25% of income for rent;
       -Design  and  follow a staff approved schedule for  a  full-time=20
        productive day.
       -State Jobs and Training Grants;
       -Donations from the local service organizations...
       -Health Care for Homeless Veterans (HCMI) Contract with Veterans=20
        Administration Medical Center (VAMC);
       -Donations from local community,  business,  organizations,  and=20
       -Rental income.
       -January  1992 -  Started with one house.   Capacity 4  homeless=20
       -January  1993 -  Collaborative effort between VA Medical Center=20
        (VAMC) rehabbed Building 47 to house 11 homeless veterans;
       -July  1993 -  converted Bldg.  47 to 13 beds.   Negotiated  and=20
        accepted  Health  Care  for Homeless (HCHV)  contract  with  VA=20
        Medical Center.
       -October   1993  -   Accepted  VA  regional  property  that  can=20
        accommodate 4 homeless veterans;
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 29
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       -November  1993  -  Incentive Work Therapy Program which the  VA=20
        Medical Center implemented;
       -February 1994 - We have served over 60 veterans to this date.
                          Judy Breitman
                            US Public Health Service
                                Phone (301) 443-2265
                          Allison Manning
                                Phone (202) 708-1226

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 30
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                            ACHILLES IN VIETNAM
                Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character
                       By Jonathan Shay, M.D., Ph.D.
         Submitted by: Patricia R. Eisemann, Director of Publicity
           Atheneum - An imprint of Macmillan Publishing Company
                   212/702-2120 VOICE * 212/605-9351 FAX
     ACHILLES IN VIETNAM:                            Contact: Sarah Ray
     Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character            212-702-9024
     Publication date:  May 30, 1994
     Price: $20.00 (Pages: 246)
     ISBN: 0-689-12182-2
                            ACHILLES IN VIETNAM
                Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character
                       by Jonathan Shay, M.D., Ph.D.
     "Provocative ... Shay's ideas merit attention by soldiers and=20
     scholars alike."
                                   ---Publishers Weekly
     "Brilliantly creative ... A heart-rending look at the permanent=20
     ruin war can wreak in any age."
                                   ---Kirkus Reviews
     "Extraordinary perspective on the problems of PTSD [post-traumatic=20
     stress disorder].  Recommended."
                                   ---Library Journal
       The  Vietnam  War  continues to rage every  day.   For  most  of=20
     America,  the  conflict ended almost twenty years ago,  but for an=20
     estimated  quarter of a million Vietnam combat veterans  suffering=20
     from post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD,  the battles continue=20
     minute-by-minute and hour-by-hour.   One veteran,  as he talked to=20
     his doctor, lamented:
         "I'm  so envious of all the normal people who can just  go=20
         to  the  mall  and  hold hands with their  wife  and  walk=20
         around.   You see,  I could never do that,  because I'd be=20
         looking everywhere... I even envy you.   I see you walking=20
         up  the  street to the clinic and you're not checking  the=20
         rooftops  for snipers or looking between cars as you  pass=20
         to  make sure there's nobody going to jump you,  and  I'll=20
         bet you have NO IDEA who's on the street with you.   I can=20
         tell  you  every  person two blocks ahead of  me  and  two=20
         blocks behind me every second."
     CHARACTER by Jonathan Shay, M.D., Ph.D.  (Atheneum;  May 9,  1994;=20
     $20.00),  a psychiatrist specializing in treating Vietnam veterans=20
     with  chronic PTSD,  related the powerful first-person accounts of=20
     the combat veterans to Homer's portrait of the warrior Achilles in=20
     THE  ILIAD.   Both Achilles and the veterans express a betrayal of=20
     "what's right"  by a commander,  which often takes the form of the=20
     army  or  the government for former U.S.  soldiers.   One  veteran=20
     attributed  his belief that "the government really didn't want  us=20
     to  get back,  that there needed to be fewer of us back home,"  to=20
     the   shoddy  guns  supplied  by  the  army.    He  recalled   the=20
     incomparable  anxiety caused by the faulty M-16 rifle -  a  common=20
     source  of  complaints by veterans -  when he confronted an  enemy=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 31
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

         "He  started  to move back and I saw he had one  of  those=20
         commando  weapons,  y'know,  with a pistol grip under  his=20
         thigh,  and  he  brought it up and I was looking  straight=20
         down  the  bore.   I  pulled the trigger on my  M-176  and=20
         nothing happened."
       Violent war destroys Achilles' sense of morality and shrinks his=20
     social  horizon,  which at first encompasses the entire Greek army=20
     and diminishes until it includes only his comrade Patroklos.   One=20
     Vietnam  veteran  recounted  the  annihilation of  his  own  moral=20
         "Well, at first, I mean when I just come there, I couldn't=20
         believe  what I was seeing.   I couldn't believe Americans=20
         could  do things like that to another human being ...  but=20
         then  I BECAME that.   We went through villages and killed=20
         everything,  I mean EVERYTHING,  and that was alright with=20
       Shay  asks,  "Can these veterans ever recover?   What  treatment=20
     will  help?   What  stands in the way?   Recovery in the sense  of=20
     returning  to  "normal"  or  regaining trusting innocence  is  not=20
     possible,  but  veterans  can  be rehabilitated  and  make  worthy=20
     contributions to society.
       To  decrease  the  chances for PTSD to  develop,  Shay  strongly=20
     supports  a  military  policy of rotation by unit rather  than  by=20
     individual.   Unlike  soldiers  who fought in World  War  II,  the=20
     typical  Vietnam soldier went over alone,  often leaving behind  a=20
     unit that was still in combat.  The opportunity to "debrief"  with=20
     others   who   had   a  shared  experience   was   lost.    Shay's=20
     recommendations  also include a need for the military to recognize=20
     grieving  as  healthy  mourning  rather than  a  sign  of  berserk=20
     behavior.   A respect for the enemy as a human being and a skilled=20
     soldier  are vital as well.   Contrary to military folklore,  such=20
     regard  increases a soldier's chances for survival during war  and=20
     moral  recovery  after  it -  instead of  weakening  the  fighting=20
       ACHILLES   IN  VIETNAM  offers  a  sensitive  and  compassionate=20
     examination of the battles many Vietnam veterans continue to fight=20
     and  a  greater  understanding of how to alleviate  the  potential=20
     suffering of soldiers in the future.
     JONATHAN  SHAY,  M.D.,  Ph.D.,  is  a psychiatrist for the  Boston=20
     Department  of  Veterans  Affairs Outpatient  Clinic,  is  on  the=20
     faculty  of  Tufts Medical School,  and trains staff for  the  New=20
     England  Shelter  for Homeless Veterans.   He lives in  Cambridge,=20
                                                             April 1994
     [Joe Note:  Jonathan Shay can also be reached through the INTERNET=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 32
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

        *  An army is a moral construction * Victory,  defeat,  and the=20
        hovering dead =3D> Some veterans' view - What is defeat?  What is=
        victory?  * Dimensions  of  betrayal of  "what's  right"  =3D> On=
        danger  in  war  =3D> The fairness  assumption  =3D> The  fiduciary=
        assumption * Soldier's rage - the beginning.
        * One  American  soldier's  social space  *  Tracking  Achilles=20
        through  social  space  =3D> Desertion =3D> Simplification  of  the=
        social  world to a single comrade * Achilles'  character before=20
        his  psychological  injuries =3D> Respect for the dead  =3D> Taking=
        prisoners  alive  * Moral luck * War destroys  the  trustworthy=20
        social  order of the mind * Combat is a condition of  captivity=20
        and enslavement * "Don't mean nothin'" - Destruction of ideals,=20
        ambitions, affiliations
        * Soldiers'  love  for  special  comrades -  Vietnam  and  Troy=20
        * Homer  on  the  relationship between Achilles  and  Patroklos=20
        * The   specialness  of  the  special  comrade  =3D> Portrait  of=
        Patroklos   * The  grief  of  Achilles  =3D> Being  already  dead=
        =3D> Grief  and the warrior's rage * Communalization of grief  in=
        the  Iliad and in Vietnam =3D> When were the dead brought to  the=
        rear?  =3D> When were the dead mourned?  =3D> What was the level of=
        trust,  safety,  and  social  cohesiveness in the  rear  during=20
        mourning?  =3D> Use  of mind-altering substances =3D> Who wept  for=
        the dead, and how were tears valued? =3D> Who washed and prepared=
        the dead for cremation/burial, shipment home?  * The importance=20
        of thwarted grief
        *  Abandonment  and wrongful substitution * Deserving the death=20
        sentence  * Homecoming  renounced  * An unintended  outcome  of=20
        religious education?  * Soldier's rage -  fatal convergence and=20
     5. BERSERK
        * Triggers  of the berserk state * "Don't get sad.   Get Even!"=20
        * Characteristics  of  the  berserk state =3D> A beast  =3D> A  god=
        =3D> Above  and beneath -  disconnection from the human community=
        =3D> Loss of all restraint =3D> Revenge as reviving the dead =3D> T=
        berserker  in  the  eyes  of other soldiers  =3D> Flaming  ice  -=
        berserk  physiology * ARISTEIAI of American Soldiers in Vietnam=20
        -   =3D> The   differences   * Naked  berserkers  and   Achilles'=
        invulnerability * Clinical importance of the berserk state
        *The  enemy  as  enemy:  Images in common to Vietnam  and  Troy=20
        * Image of the Vietnamese enemy * Homer:  Valor does not depend=20
        on  contempt for enemy =3D> Enemy soldiers talk to each other  at=
        Troy =3D> Soldiers talk about the enemy at Troy * Religious roots=
        of  the enemy as vermin:  =3D> Biblical anti-epic in 1 Samuel  17=
        * Clinical  importance  of  honoring or dishonoring  the  enemy=20
        * Abuse of the dead enemy
        * Deprivation  * Friendly  fire * Fragging * Suffering  of  the=20
        wounded  * Civilian  suffering  =3D> Suffered  by  all  civilians=
        during  war =3D> Suffered exclusively or primarily by women after=
        * The social spectrum of luck * Equipment failure * Attributing=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 33
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

        blame * Job's paradox and the possibility of virtue
        * Armies   as   creators  of  social  power  * Gods  as   REMFs=20
        =3D> Heartlessness  of  the Gods =3D=3D> Readiness to  "waste"  liv=
        =3D=3D> Sunk   costs  argument  =3D=3D> Sinister  demographic   age=
        =3D> Inconsistent,    unreliable,    inattentive,    distractible=
        * Homeric irony and god's love
        * The  official  diagnostic criteria for PTSD of  the  American=20
        Psychiatric  Association  * PTSD  and the  ruins  of  Character=20
        * Persistence of the traumatic moment -  Loss of authority over=20
        mental  function  =3D> Untrustworthiness of perception  =3D> Memory=
        * Persistent  mobilization for danger * Persistence of survival=20
        skills  * Persistence  of betrayal * Persistence  of  isolation=20
        * Persistence  of suicidality * Persistence of  meaninglessness=20
        * Destruction of the capacity for democratic participation
        * Is recovery possible?  =3D> Return to "normal"  is not possible=
        =3D> We don't know if recovery is possible =3D>  Yes -  recovery is=
        possible  * What  is the best treatment?  =3D> Why and  how  does=
        narrative heal? * The law of forgetting and denial
        * Prevention  =3D> Protect  unit cohesion by  unit,  rather  than=
        individual  rotation =3D> Griefwork =3D> Berserking not  encouraged=
        =3D> Eliminate  intentional injustice as a motivational technique=
        =3D> Respect   the  enemy  as  human  =3D> Acknowledge  psychiatric=
        casualties   * War  is  not  an  industrial  process  * Pissing=20
        contests * Species ethic

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 34
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       XXXXX           XXXXX                XXXXX                 XXXX
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     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 35
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                       PTSD & the Forgotten Warriors
                             By Jonathan Shay
               Submitted by: The City University of New York
         Office of Veterans Affairs - 101 W. 31st St. New York NY
                Joyce Flory VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                           (505) 523-2811
       and posted in VIETNAM_VETS Echo Conference by Lavaughn Hayes
     --Jonathan  Shay  is a psychiatrist with a Boston  DVA  Outpatient=20
     Clinic  program for Vietnam combat vets with severe,  chronic PTSD=20
     and personality changes due to prolonged combat, has trained staff=20
     at  the New England Shelter for Homeless Veterans as a  volunteer,=20
     and has just published a book, ACHILLES IN VIETNAM:  COMBAT TRAUMA=20
     AND THE UNDOING OF CHARACTER (Atheneum).  This article is based on=20
     his  testimony before the Oversight and Investigation Subcommittee=20
     of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, May 4, 1994.=20
     Combat PTSD, that is, the persistence of past traumatic experience=20
     in the present physiology,  psychology,  and social relatedness of=20
     the combat survivor, has these symptoms:
       - Loss  of authority over mental function -  particularly memory=20
         and trustworthy perception
       - Persistent  mobilization  of the body and the mind for  lethal=20
         danger with the potential for explosive violence
       - Persistence  and  activation  of  combat  survival  skills  in=20
         civilian life
       - Chronic  health problems stemming from chronic mobilization of=20
         the body for danger
       - Persistent   expectation   of   betrayal   and   exploitation;=20
         destruction of the capacity for social trust
       - Persistent preoccupation with both the enemy and the veteran's=20
         own military/governmental authorities
       - Alcohol and drug abuse
       - Suicidality, despair, isolation, and meaninglessness
     The  symptoms range in severity from mild to devastating,  and not=20
     everyone has all the symptoms at the same time.
       This  is a gruesome,  but truthful portrait of severe war wounds=20
     in the mind,  incurred in actual battle for our country.   The men=20
     who incurred these wounds have an absolute moral claim on the rest=20
     of  us  to  provide treatment for these wounds.   This  is  not  a=20
     partisan issue.  It does not reflect anyone's judgment whether the=20
     Vietnam War was a noble cause or a horrible mistake -  the men who=20
     fought it and were injured in it have the same claim regardless of=20
     the justice of the war, over which they had no control.  Those who=20
     openly  or silently deny that it is our duty to provide  treatment=20
     to  these men or who do not feel this duty weigh[s]  on them  very=20
     heavily  should  consider that to provide these mental health  and=20
     other benefits to psychologically injured veterans is in their own=20
       Let  me  focus on three groups of war-injured whose moral  claim=20
     has  been  rebuffed.   The usual perception is that two  of  these=20
     groups  have only themselves to blame -  it is their misconduct or=20
     criminal  behavior  that  has deprived them of  their  benefits  -=20
     veterans  with "bad paper"  discharges and incarcerated  veterans. =20
     For  both these groups,  combat PTSD contributed significantly  to=20
     their unmilitary or criminal conduct -  and will continue to do so=20
     if it is not successfully treated.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 36
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       Prolonged  combat can produce not only psychiatric symptoms,  it=20
     can damage good character.  Very ancient teachings,  going back to=20
     Plato  tells  us  that  once  good character  is  formed  by  good=20
     upbringing in childhood, no bad events can damage a good person or=20
     his  character.   Plato's  ancient  contemporaries,  the  Athenian=20
     tragic poets Sophocles and Euripides said with one voice -  Wrong! =20
     When bereavement,  betrayal of what's right,  and horror have been=20
     sufficiently  severe,   even  the  noblest  character  may  crack. =20
     However,  Plato's view has permeated our culture and common sense. =20
     American psychiatry has been notably reluctant to acknowledge that=20
     severe  trauma can change the personality,  despite the compelling=20
     evidence to this effect produced by the DSM-IV Field Trials.
       By  contrast,  the  World Health Organization's 1992  diagnostic=20
     manual   ICD-10,   acknowledges   the  entity   called   "Enduring=20
     Personality  Change  after  Catastrophic  Experience,"  which  the=20
     American  Psychiatric  Association's diagnostic system refused  to=20
     admit.   Official  American  psychiatry institutionalizes  Plato's=20
     dubious proposition:  if bad experience leads someone who was good=20
     to do terrible things,  it must be he was secretly flawed from the=20
     beginning.   He  deserves no respect for any previously  honorable=20
     conduct  -  all  possibility of respect or consideration has  been=20
     obliterated by his criminal act.
       I  am  not trying to exculpate criminals who also happen  to  be=20
     combat  veterans  of their crimes.   I have never testified as  an=20
     expert  witness on behalf of a defendant in a criminal trial,  nor=20
     at  a clemency or parole hearing,  and probably never will.   I am=20
     not  trying to get anyone off nor get anyone's sentence shortened. =20
     However,  I  want to see these men receive effective treatment for=20
     their  psychological  injuries,  first,  because the  overwhelming=20
     majority  will be released from prison within the next five  years=20
     and  are  likely  to commit further  violence  if  untreated,  and=20
     second, because these men suffer continual pain.  I work with such=20
     men.   I  know this to be the truth.   They suffer pain from their=20
     war  wounds as surely as a veteran with a piece of shrapnel buried=20
     in  his spine might be tormented by constant pain.   Are we really=20
     willing to say that we wash our hands of responsibility for wounds=20
     a soldier received in his country's battles - physical or mental -=20
     when he goes to prison?  That's what we now do.
       Whenever  I have mentioned the plight of men who have served  in=20
     harrowing combat, but who have been unable to get VA mental health=20
     or pension benefits,  I almost always hear the listener's favorite=20
     "Biggest Liar I Ever Met" story, or "Doc, you been scammed."  I am=20
     well  aware  that there are many scammers and wannabes out  there. =20
     Neither  they  nor  their  motivations interest  me.   But  it  is=20
     shameful  and  dangerous that men who were carefully selected  and=20
     highly trained, then injured in secret combat operations,  and are=20
     now,  largely  because  of their injuries,  on the fringes of  our=20
     society,  unable  to  get  mental health treatment  or  disability=20
     pensions,  because  their combat service is not reflected in their=20
       How many veterans fit this description?   The number is probably=20
     not large, but can we be content if there is even a single combat-
     injured  veteran who is denied health and pension benefits because=20
     he has been unable to establish his bona fides?  I do not claim to=20
     know how to remedy to this situation. [sic] It is not difficult to=20
     say  what such a remedy should accomplish:   it should permit  any=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 37
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     veteran  whose  standard paperwork,  such as the DD-214,  did  not=20
     reflect  the usual records of combat service,  i.e.  assignment to=20
     the  war zone in a combat MOS,  to obtain confirmation that he had=20
     served  in combat operations,  and which would be deemed to  grant=20
     the  presumption  of truth to the veteran's story for medical  and=20
     pension  purposes.   Such confirmation could contain a  disclaimer=20
     that  it  neither  confirmed  nor  denied  any  specifics  of  the=20
     veteran's story, if any residual national security worries were to=20
     present an obstacle.   Eliminating a declassification dimension to=20
     the  process  would reduce the expense of implementing any such  a=20
     mechanism.   Unit associations could be of use here,  if granted a=20
     defined   Service  Organization  status  that  permitted  them  to=20
     certify,  again  for  medical and pension purposes,  that a  given=20
     veteran had in fact served in combat operations,  whatever his DD-
     214 may say or not say.
       Without  being  unduly  melodramatic,  I simply want  to  remind=20
     everyone  how  imprudent it is to drive to the fringes of  society=20
     these  veterans  with  the kinds of lethal skills that  they  have=20
     acquired through specialized training and combat experience.
       It  is  shameful that there are battle-injured veterans who  are=20
     not eligible for VA services and benefits.  Most of these veterans=20
     with   less-than-Honorable  discharges  committed  offenses  after=20
     combat  that  caused them to be discharged from  military  service=20
     with what veterans call "bad paper."  Most Vietnam combat veterans=20
     with   "bad   paper"   committed  infractions  as  a   result   of=20
     psychological  injuries  incurred in their war  service.   Typical=20
     offenses stemming directly from combat PTSD were:
       - AWOL or desertion after return to U.S.
       - Use of illicit drugs to self-medicate symptoms of PTSD
       - Impulsive  assaults during explosive rages on officers or NCOs=20
         after return to the U.S.
       These veterans had no treatment then,  and have no treatment now=20
     for  their Post-traumatic Stress Disorder or for its complications=20
     of  substance abuse,  depression,  and violence.   They have  been=20
     profoundly   disadvantaged   in  finding  work  and   comprise   a=20
     disproportionate  fraction of homeless veterans,  who make up one-
     third  of  all  homeless men[1].  According to  the  Director  for=20
     Shelter  Operations  of  the  New  England  Shelter  for  Homeless=20
     Veterans, a 225-bed shelter in downtown Boston, 25% of the men who=20
     have come through the door are combat veterans with bad paper.  3%=20
     of Vietnam-era vets have bad paper, and separately, 9% of Vietnam-
     era service men served in significant combat.   The percentage who=20
     were both has not been published, to my knowledge.
       As  a  VA physician,  I have never treated a veteran with a  Bad=20
     Conduct,  Undesirable  or  Dishonorable  discharge,  because  they=20
     cannot get through the front door - they are ineligible for any VA=20
     services.   Virtually  everything I now of this problem comes from=20
     accounts  of  the  staff at the New England Shelter  for  Homeless=20
       I  do  know that the rod of military justice did not  fall  with=20
     equal weight on every soldier.   According to the well-known study=20
     by  Baskir and Strauss,  "A 1972 Defense Department Task Force  on=20
     Military  Justice reported that blacks of comparable education and=20
     aptitude  who  committed offenses of comparable  seriousness  were=20
     receiving much harsher punishments than whites...   An NAACP study=20
     found  that  45%  of  all less-than-Honorable discharges  went  to=20
     blacks.  An Urban League study showed that blacks in the Air Force=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 38
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     received  Dishonorable Discharges at more than three and  one-half=20
     times  the rate of all airmen."[2]   The same lopsided  statistics=20
     also apply to Hispanic veterans.
       This  problem  does not call for a study or for an expansion  of=20
     the existing case-by-case discharge upgrade program.   I propose a=20
     blanket  upgrade  of  all  veterans  discharged  under  less  than=20
     honorable conditions who have any combat decoration such as Combat=20
     Infantryman Badge,  Combat Action Ribbon,  etc.,  or obviously any=20
     award for heroism, such as the Bronze Star.  I have spoken to many=20
     Vietnam combat veterans with Honorable Discharges about this,  and=20
     not one has felt that this would diminish them in any way.   Their=20
     reactions  have  all been either "It's about  =20
     time" or "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
       An   alternative  remedy,   less  satisfactory  but  a   massive=20
     improvement  over  the  present situation would be to  revise  the=20
     Department  of  Veterans Affairs eligibility criteria to make  any=20
     veteran  who  has  served in combat unconditionally  eligible  for=20
     health and other benefits.
       What  I propose applies only to combat veterans,  who constitute=20
     but  a  fraction of the 566,000 Vietnam-Era veterans with  Genera,=20
     Undesirable, Bad Conduct, or Dishonorable discharge.[3]  Using the=20
     definition   as   "High  Combat  Stressor   Exposure"   from   the=20
     Congressionally  mandated  National Vietnam Veterans  Readjustment=20
     Study (NVVRS)  as the criterion,  there are 766,000 Vietnam combat=20
     veterans  or about 24%  of all Vietnam-era veterans.   If the same=20
     proportion of Vietnam-Era veterans with General, Undesirable,  Bad=20
     Conduct,  or Dishonorable discharges were combat veterans,  we are=20
     talking about roughly 135,000 veterans,  some of whom have already=20
     had discharge upgrades and many of whom are dead by suicide, drug-
     related and violence related causes.   NVVRS collected self-report=20
     data  on  type  of  discharge  and  combat  exposure,  but  cross-
     tabulation of these data has not been published.   Combat veterans=20
     with  bad  paper are characteristically even more  mistrustful  ad=20
     more hostile to the government than other Vietnam combat vets (who=20
     as a group are quite mistrustful of the government),  so we should=20
     assume that they are systematically under-represented in the NVVRS=20
     sample,  first  because of difficulties in simply finding them and=20
     second  in  terms of gaining their cooperation in the  study.   It=20
     should  not  be  surprising,  therefore,  that the  percentage  of=20
     veterans  with less than General Discharges measured by the  NVVRS=20
     was  considerably lower than the percentage derived from the Armed=20
     Forces' own reports of such discharges.
       I  treat  veterans  with psychological injuries from  their  war=20
     service, and find the situation of veterans with "bad paper" to be=20
     as  unjust  and  irrational as if they had been  drummed  out  for=20
     failure to stand at attention after their feet had been blown off. =20
     Most of these men committed offenses because of their combat PTSD.
       Pure  self-interest should lead us to take this step,  even if a=20
     sense  of justice does not.   Between a tenth and a quarter of all=20
     incarcerated  males  are  veterans.[4]   It costs  an  average  of=20
     $25,000  a year for each of these,  and this does not include  the=20
     monetary  costs  to  society of the criminal  acts  themselves.[5] =20
     Unhealed    combat   PTSD   predisposes   to   criminal    justice=20
     involvement;[6] and treatment costs but a fraction of the costs to=20
     wait  for  crime to happen and then use the  police,  courts,  and=20
     prisons to "treat" it.
       Neglected communicable diseases such as tuberculosis impose ever=20
     increasing public health risks and costs.   Veterans with PTSD are=20
     more  than  five times as likely to be homeless and  vagrant  than=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 39
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     demographically similar civilian controls,[7]  thus more effective=20
     in  spreading  communicable diseases.   Untreated substance  abuse=20
     endangers both public health and public safety.
       I am not so naive as ot think that every combat veteran with bad=20
     paper "deserves" an Honorable Discharge.   But the terror,  grief,=20
     rage,  and  betrayals  of prolonged,  heavy combat can  ruin  good=20
     character.  The damaged character of some combat veterans is a war=20
     injury.   We  are neither just,  nor serve our own best  interests=20
     when  we  deny these veterans treatment to heal these  damages  in=20
     their character.
       To  deny  any  combat  veteran the physical  and  mental  health=20
     services of the VA is not only unjust,  it is self-defeating.   It=20
     is bad public policy.  Let's bring ALL of our combat veterans home=20
       1. National Coalition for the Homeless, "Heroes Today,  Homeless=20
          Tomorrow?"  Homelessness among Veterans in the United States"=20
          (Washington, DC, November, 1991),  pp. 6ff.
       2. Lawrence  M.  Baskir  and  William  A.  Strauss,  CHANCE  AND=20
          (New York: Vintage Books, 1978), pp. 218f.
       3. Baskir and Strauss, pp. 218f.
       4. This is a commonly used figure, but the data are very poor on=20
          this  subject.   Incarcerated Vietnam veterans in  particular=20
          are   reluctant   to  disclose  their  military  records   to=20
          correctional officials.
       5. NVVRS VII-20-1, -2 36.8%  of veterans with PTSD self-reported=20
          six  or  more violent acts in the preceding year compared  to=20
          11.5%  of  demographically similar civilian controls.   NVVRS=20
          citations are to the separately published volume of Tables of=20
          Findings  and Technical Appendices (New York:  Brunner/Mazel,=20
       6. NVVRS VII-21-1, -2 34%  of veterans with PTSD self-reported 2=20
          or more arrests, and 11.5%  reported conviction for a felony. =20
          The  corresponding  percentages for  demographically  similar=20
          civilian controls were 6.8% and 4.9%.
       7. NVVRS VII-18-1.

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 40
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                             Pursuit of Freedom

                         Cambodia            |
                                             |       Hanoi
       Bac Si                          -----/_\-----
                          -O=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<  : =
                                   ( )     (...)      ( )
          Rockpile                 )|
                               _+|__|_      Medic!
                              |---  --|
       _____________                             Camranh Bay
      / /  /   \  \ \
     /   /   /   \   \    Rach-hui River
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                         Phubai
      \      |      /                    ((_______________))
       \     |     /                          ___|_     ___
        \    |    /             Saigon       /  | |  (( _|_ ))
         \   |   /                        __/___| |____/ *|
          \  |  /                       [________________|
           \ | /                         \_______||_____
            \ /  Binhlong Province
             |                                  Blackhorse
            / \
              Dak To                    |
                                       /O\           Tayninh Province
                               o   ++   O   ++   o
                  |              Patience ... Hell!!!
     /|         |          |         |         |\\             TET
                                          Bien Hoa
      Big Red One ____________   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _________________/|_=
                  |           |  "  =3D=3D=3D  |_______________| |-----:::
                  |._    -    " ) |_|___|
                               / /  |___|      The Chicago Eight

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 41
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                Fading Photographs From My Minds Own Album
                              Michael McCombs
           Gratefully shared with EVAC and our NamVet Readers by
                  Gjoseph Peck, NamVet's Managing Editor
                           VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     [Joe  Note:   These  are  the first chapters of  a  many-chaptered=20
     "book"  wherein  a proud American Soldier lets us walk with him as=20
     he  enters the military,  walks through some nightmarish  valleys,=20
     and finally returns home - only to discover that the ghosts of the=20
     valleys  and memories of The Elephant need MORE release than  just=20
     walking  away from them -  else they will and DO haunt one's every=20
     living moment!
       Walk  with Michael as he remembers the photographs taken by  his=20
     mind's  eye and again gives them life.  Laugh with him.   Cry with=20
     him.  Feel fear, apprehension, surprise, pain and pride. =20
       This  is  the substance of which our American Fighting  Men  are=20
       I'd like to thank you,  Mike,  for sharing your life with me and=20
     granting permission to reproduce your efforts both here and in the=20
     soon-to-be-finished NamVet-styled Electronic Book entitled,  as is=20
       And  I'd especially like to thank you for your proud service  to=20
     our great nation and say a special WELCOME HOME, BRO'!] =20
     No  part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form=20
     or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying,=20
     recording,  or  by  any information storage and retrieval  system,=20
     without the written permission of the author,  except where and as=20
     permitted by law.
     By  definition,  this  is  a work of fiction.  The  names  of  all=20
     Americans and some other details have been changed. The rest is as=20
     portrayed  by an aging memory.  I make no pretense that this is  a=20
     work of history.  It is more a work of remembered feelings of long=20
                          For The VWAR-L Lounge,
                        and those that inhabit it.
                  For the incentive and sanity to write.
                                 And for:
                                Greg Orman
                             Mike McCombs, Jr.
                      so that they might understand.
     Special thanks:  To Lydia Fish,  the list owner of VWAR-L,  and to=20
     all  the denizens of that special place in cyberspace we call  THE=20
     LIST.   They  accepted me as I am,  and tolerated this gloom being=20
     placed  in front of them,  time and time again.  Without them,  it=20
     would never have happened.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 42
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     There are so many of them who have helped in the recalling and the=20
     writing  that  it  is  impossible to recount  them  all  here,  or=20
     anywhere  else  for that matter.  Most did it by simply being  and=20
     sharing their own pieces with me.  In no particular order,  I wish=20
     to  thank Monte Olsen (Scissor butt),  Tim Driscoll (T-bomb),  Tom=20
     Sykes  (Dog Handler),  Jim Lynch (FNG),  Tom Edmonds (Terminator),=20
     Toby  Hughes  (Sharkbait),  Pats  Givens  (Rosie),  Richard  Rohde=20
     (Roadie),  Marc  Aden  (voodoo  chile),  Dan  Okada  (DanO),  Jack=20
     Carpenter  (JackC),  Jack  Mallory (Cap'n  Jack),  Michelle  (REMF=20
     librarian)  and Mike (V-man)  Viehman,  Nancy Kendall (Motor Oil),=20
     Dennis  Koho  (Mayor),  Lisa  Harmon (Buffalo  Gal),  John  Creech=20
     (creecherman),  and  a  lot of others whose names will  not  come.=20
     Thank you all very much.
     And  a final thanks to a friend who will not read this.  His story=20
     is here, too. Thank you for having been my friend, my little Jarai=20
                            FADING PHOTOGRAPHS
                       The crackle of ancient paper
                         rustles through my mind,
                              like parchment
                           overhandled, frayed,
                             breaking of age.
                              Tired and worn
                        from the passage of years.
                           They were fresh once,
                             in another place,
                             in another time.
                          They carried the images
                         of loved ones, of places
                       I once knew, caught forever;
                             or so I dreamed.
                          The colors were bright
                          and the focus just so.
                           Sharp for the things
                           and soft for persons
                           I had chosen to cast
                          into the forever world
                       in the cloister of my skull.
                           Little things mostly;
                         like a leaf in the spring
                         or a flower in the snow.
                            They held the peel
                              of the laughter
                          and the thunder alike,
                       safe for tomorrow's thinking.
                      There were some big things too,
                           that counted for more
                        to me than all the springs
                        that had passed behind me.
                            Soft eyed children,
                          a grandmother's smile,
                      the final passing of a friend.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 43
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                       The ones that seem most faded
                         are of yet a third kind.
                       The ones that tell the story
                             of a younger man,
                             in an alien land,
                        fighting a war without end
                       and not knowing why he does.
                        The sharpness is gone from
                          the friends by the wire
                              or on the berm;
                           the mountains beyond
                         and the stars that shone
                           in that foreign land
                          beyond a graying ocean.
                            Good friends, too.
                       Friends to die for and with,
                            or to die for you.
                       Nametags faded beyond recall.
                         The sound of their voices
                         covered by monsoon rains
                            or incoming rounds.
                        Even the places are going:
                        Kontum, Nha Trang, Pleiku,
                       are simple blurs on the paper
                      that used to hold so much more.
                       Even the tank has no corners
                      and the napalm burns only gray;
                   tracers leaving lines without color.
                       And what of Weet, and Sarge,
                          and all those who gave
                            this strange place
                        a reason, however cryptic,
                             for being at all?
                          Pain and love and hate
                        and fear are all but gone.
                            Only the strongest
                          have survived the years
                       intact, or I think they are.
                         The rawest hate and fear,
                        unmitigated by the lesser,
                            the gentler things
                    that made even these less horrible.
                              So I reach out,
                           with my feeble hands
                             and softly grab,
                        trying to save all of these
                       that I want to keep so badly.
                          The fading photographs
                         from my mind's own album.
     These are some of my stories and musings on what happened nearly a=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 44
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     quarter century ago. I have written them down in the hope that, by=20
     puttin' them on another medium, I can gain some kinda control over=20
     'em.  I don't think it worked.  But it's done now,  anyway.  Maybe=20
     they will help you. That would be fine by me. I wouldn't wish what=20
     they've done for me on a dog.
     They are in no special order. Oh, some that go together are placed=20
     that way, but it's not strictly chronological.  It's more like how=20
     I remembered it. Don't sweat it, you'll figure it out.  There just=20
     isn't that much to get lost in.
     I've  tried to write these as I felt 'em at the time they occurred=20
     more  than  for historical accuracy;  and as I would tell  'em  if=20
     properly bribed with appropriate beverages at a local den of shady=20
     repute.  It  is  mostly disjointed stories of an unusual  fourteen=20
     months - my tour in Southeast Asia. There's some other stuff, too.=20
     Things  that  tell a little about the guy who wrote these  things,=20
     both  before and after.  Some of it may pass for poetry.  Soldiers=20
     and poets are not far removed.  Some of it is vulgar,  profane and=20
     obscene.  All of it is irreverent.  It was,  after all,  a vulgar,=20
     profane, obscene, and irreverent war.=20
     You know any other kinds?=20
     - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
     Note:  I'm  a  couple decades older as I write these than  when  I=20
     lived  them.  It  is not always easy to recall  feelings.  I  have=20
     tried. Gook, dink, slope, and a lot of the profanity are no longer=20
     a regular part of my vocabulary. They are offensive, and I despise=20
     the words.  But they are part of what I was in the there-and-then.=20
     Leaving  them  out would be the greatest of hypocrisies.  I  would=20
     rather be obscene than a hypocrite.=20
     - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *


A soldier's world is filled with equipment and concepts peculiar
to his occupation and life style. There is no way to express the
thoughts and actions of the soldier I was then without that
jargon. Here is what I think you'll need:

     '16, M-16 - standard military rifle
     122 - enemy weapon, 122 mm rocket
     123, C-123 - two engine cargo aircraft
     130, C-130 - four engine cargo aircraft
     20, 20 mm - mini-canon used on aircraft
     .22 - 22 caliber weapon - light pistol
     203, M-203 - 40 mm grenade launcher mounted under a rifle barrel
     .45 - 45 caliber pistol
     4.2 - "four deuce", 4.2 inch mortar
     .50 - 50 caliber machine gun
     .51 - enemy weapon, 51 caliber machine gun
     '60, M-60 - 7.62 mm machine gun
     7.62 mini - 7.62 mm mini-gun
     80 - 80 mm mortar
     AA - anti-aircraft
     AK, AK-47 - enemy weapon, standard Warsaw Pact rifle
     AO - acronym, Area of Operations
     Arclight - B-52 strike
     ARvn - acronym, Army of the Republic of Viet Nam
     BDA - acronym, Bomb Damage Assessment
     Berm - a defensive wall of earth
     Bird - an aircraft, usually a helicopter
     Black Bird - USAF aircraft for special operations, named for   
                  black paint job
     Bouncing betty - type of mine blown into the air before    
                      detonation to increase casualties
     Browning - a 9 mm pistol
     Bru - a tribe of Montagnards, q.v.
     Bunker - a protective shelter
     C & C - Command and Control, see "Special Project"
     CAR, CAR-15 - rifle, carbine version of the M-16
     CCC, CCN, CCS - acronyms for military units, see "Special 
     Civvies - civilian attire
     Claymore - a directional mine
     Cobra - a military helicopter used as a gun platform
     Conex - metal military container, large.
     Cork - a drug to prevent defecation, used in the field with small
     Cover one's six - watch the rear
     Covey - the name of the USAF detachment that flew our radio     
     Crud, the - various fungi and rashes common to soldiers in warm 
     DEROS - acronym, Date of Expected Return from Overseas
     Didi - Vietnamese, flee or leave rapidly
     E & E - acronym, Escape and Evasion
     Exfil - exfiltration, point of exit from AO
     FAC - acronym, Forward Air Controller
     Fast mover - a jet, usually an F-4
     Firebase - a remote artillery position, usually quite isolated
     Fire fan - the field of fire of a larger gun or mortar
     First shirt - military slang for First Sergeant, usually the    
                   highest enlisted grade in a company
     FNG - acronym, Fucking New Guy
     Grease - slang, to kill
     Hillsboro - an air force command and control aircraft
     Hootch - see "Hootch"
     HQ - acronym, HeadQuarters
     IA - acronym, Immediate Action
     IG - acronym, Inspector General
     Insert - insertion, point of entrance into AO
     Intel - intelligence information
     Jarai - a tribe of Montagnards, q.v.
     K, klick - a kilometer, the U.S. military uses the metric system
     Khaki - a sandish color, used in uniforms
     KIA - acronym, Killed In Action
     LTC - rank, Lieutenant Colonel
     LZ - acronym, Landing Zone, a site for a helicopter to land
     LZ watcher - an enemy soldier assigned to guard and report on  
                  activities on an LZ
     Medivac - medical evacuation, of injured personnel
     Mess, messhall - a military dining facility
     MIA - acronym, Missing In Action
     Mike Force - an allied reaction team, usually larger than a    
     Mini-pounder - small radar transmitter user to mark locations on
                    the ground for radar-carrying aircraft
     Montagnard - one of the indigenous hill people of Southeast Asia
     Moonbeam - nighttime name of Hillsboro, q.v.
     MOS - acronym, Military Occupational Specialty - one's job title
     MPC - acronym, Military Payment Certificate, used in lieu of cash
     MSG - rank, Master Sergeant
     NCO - acronym, Non-Commissioned Officer
     NVA - acronym, North Vietnamese Army
     O-2 - a light observation aircraft
     O2 and benedryl - oxygen and a strong antihistamine, for  
     OAS - acronym, Organization of American States
     OFM(cap) - Catholic religious order, Order of Friars Minor 
     OP - acronym, Observation Post
     Otter - light observation aircraft, an O-1
     P, piaster - monetary units of Rvn
     PH - acronym, Purple Heart, awarded for wounds received in action
     Phantom - air force fighter aircraft, the F-4
     Point, point man - the soldier who walks first in formation and 
                        scouts the area ahead
     POW - acronym, Prisoner Of War
     Reckless - slang, a recoilless rifle, small artillery piece
     RON - acronym, Remain OverNight, a nighttime position
     RPD - enemy weapon, light squad machine gun
     RT - acronym, Recon Team
     RTO - acronym, Radio-Telephone Operator, the soldier who carries
           the radio
     Rvn - acronym, Republic of Viet Nam
     SEA - acronym, SouthEast Asia
     SF - acronym, Special Forces
     SFC - rank, Sergeant First Class
     SFTG - acronym, Special Forces Training Group
     SKS - enemy weapon, bolt action rifle
     Slick - troop transport helicopter, UH-1
     Slow mover - propeller driven air force fighter aircraft
     Snake - slang, a Cobra helicopter
     SOG - acronym, Special Operations Group, see "Special Project"
     SOP - acronym, Standing Operating Procedures
     SSG - rank, Staff Sergeant
     Stabo rig - special web gear allowing the wearer to be picked up
                 by the harness
     Straphang - operate with a team other than one's own
     Tail - the soldier who walks last in formation and covers the  
     TOC - acronym, Tactical Operations Center
     TO&E, TOE - acronym, Table of Organization and Equipment, the way
                 a military unit is organized
     Tracer - military round that leaves a visible trail as it travels
     Tri-border - that area of SEA around the point where Viet Nam, 
                  Cambodia and Laos meet
     V Corps - "Five Corps", see "Special Project"
     Ville - slang, village, particularly a Montagnard village
     Watcher - see LZ watcher
     White mouse - derogatory term for the national police of Rvn
     WP, willie pete - a white phosphorus round or grenade
     'Yard - slang, Montagnard, q.v.
     Zero week - an unassigned first week before the commencement of a
                 school, frequently spent on details

     At  the ripe and wisdom-filled age of seventeen,  I chose to  join=20
     the U.S. Army. Any number of reasons, I suppose. The two strongest=20
     ones  on  my  mind at the time were parental pressure  and  anger.=20
     Let's face it, if you are seein' a young lady again,  even younger=20
     than  yourself,  who has already borne you a son,  parents are not=20
     happy  campers or particularly easy to live with.  And it is  mid-
     February 1968 - THE Tet Offensive,  and friends are dead or dyin'.=20
     Those two factors complemented each other, and on Valentine's Day,=20
     1968,  I  did the deed.  I somehow didn't picture that I would not=20
     arrive in Southeast Asia until mid-year, 1971.
     I did the usual routine. Basic training at Ft. Ord,  Ca.  Advanced=20
     Infantry Training at Camp Crockett, Ft.  Gordon,  Ga.  I'd already=20
     decided  to  be Airborne Infantry (needed that extra $55  a  month=20
     when  base pay for an E-1 was $89 a month),  so next stop was  Ft.=20
     Benning,  Ga.  And here,  the short story of my advanced years got=20
     the surprise insert.=20
     To  get out of work one day during "zero week"  I took a test  for=20
     Special  Forces (SF,  Green Berets,  Green Weenies,  whatever).  I=20
     wasn't  interested  in  any such thing,  but it  was  better  than=20
     another eight hours at the riggers' shed.  I promptly forgot about=20
     it during the three grueling weeks under the Georgia summer sun in=20
     Jump  School.  The day after I finished "jump week,"  I got orders=20
     for  Ft.  Bragg,  N.C.  and Special Forces Training Group  (SFTG).=20
     Whaddahell! They were nifty hats, so I went.  Like I had a choice,=20
     of course.
     I  was on Smoke Bomb Hill,  the home of Special Forces,  for  nine=20
     months:  Phase  I training,  MOS training (Morse code and  radios,=20
     05B),  and  Phase III trainin'.  Then they decided I was good  for=20
     Phase  IV  training -  another month of seeing how far they  could=20
     push you before you broke. They pissed me off, and I didn't break.=20
     This  was an error to haunt me for many years.  Like volunteering,=20
     it's one of those things you don't do. I was young.=20
     Anyway,  somewhere  in  there I got married to the same  woman  as=20
     mentioned  above and had number-two son.  I also listened to a lot=20
     of old SF types and developed a hankerin' to wander and do some of=20
     that off-the-wall stuff.  So I took a short and reupped for six to=20
     get assigned to Panama. More school! Three months in D.C. to learn=20
     Spanish. A great tour, as I already spoke it fluently.
     In November of 1969, I arrived at Ft.  Gulick,  Panama Canal Zone.=20
     Had  a blast,  though that's not the point here.  In '71,  it  was=20
     time,  and  I  volunteered for Viet Nam when the word came  around=20
     some  folk were needed for the special projects.  Back to  another=20
     school  for three weeks at Bragg,  again.  By now I'm a young buck=20
     sergeant, have everything a little more under control,  and things=20
     flow better.=20
     Tour  the west coast kin,  kiss the wife and son good-bye at  LAX,=20
     spend a couple days at Ft. Lewis,  Wa.  and board a plane for some=20
     damned place called "Cam Ranh Bay."
     Y'know, we make a LOT of errors when we're young....
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 48
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     Special  Forces is one of the most misunderstood outfits the  Army=20
     ever had. Misunderstood by the public,  the press,  and even those=20
     who  wore the Green Beret.  Not even the Army knew what they  were=20
     for, or what to do with 'em. That didn't stop 'em,  however,  from=20
     doin' all sorts of things to us.
     Special  Forces was created in 1952 as an option to problems  like=20
     the  Czech  uprisin'  of that year.  The concept was a  series  of=20
     small,  highly  trained teams available to infiltrate into similar=20
     situations in foreign countries to train, equip, advise,  and,  if=20
     necessary,  lead indigenous populations in the conduct of guerilla=20
     warfare.  While primarily envisioned as operatin'  in wartime,  as=20
     part  of a theater of operations includin'  regular armed  forces,=20
     the  unspoken option of use in non-wartime situations existed from=20
     the beginnin'.  Nearly all of the first batch of soldiers inducted=20
     into  Special  Forces  were Americans of recent  Eastern  European=20
     extraction,  many  of 'em born there before the Iron Curtain  came=20
     But  that ideal survived only a couple of months.  That same year,=20
     somebody  in the Pentagon figured that this mission made SF  prime=20
     candidates  for  counterinsurgency operations.  And they sent  the=20
     first  SF personnel to the far ends of the earth,  to a place  few=20
     Americans  knew,  called  Viet Nam.  In less than  a  decade,  the=20
     original   mission  had  slipped  into  second  place,   and   the=20
     counterinsurgency  role  had become primary.  With the  additional=20
     duties,  SF  expanded  rapidly.  There are,  after all,  a lot  of=20
     guerillas  in  the  world.  From the first group  in  1952,  later=20
     designated the 10th SFG,  they added the 1st in Okinawa,  the 3rd,=20
     4th, 6th and 7th at Ft. Bragg, and the 8th in Panama. The 5th,  of=20
     course, went to Viet Nam. The 10th, in Europe,  the 8th in Panama,=20
     and  the  1st  in Okinawa saw extensive  use  in  counter-guerilla=20
     warfare throughout the world. The others, and the old-time members=20
     of the 10th, continued to train for the original mission, never to=20
     be used.
     The  old TO&E consisted of a company with three  "B"  teams,  each=20
     with  five  "A"  teams.  The "A"  team was (and  is)  the  primary=20
     operational level of SF. Each team is commanded by a Captain, XO a=20
     1Lt, and ten sergeants in five specialty groups - a backup in each=20
     slot;  operations  and  intelligence,   weapons,   communications,=20
     medicine, and engineering, primarily demolitions. The organization=20
     and  high levels of trainin'  and motivation made the A-Team  very=20
     flexible,  and it assumed a wide variety of missions,  far removed=20
     from the ideas of the first organizers. And so it remains today.
     One  got  into  SF in my time by  fulfillin'  three  requirements:=20
     passin' a rigorous test, passin'  through jump school to earn your=20
     parachutist rating, and makin' it through the intense session with=20
     SFTG  on Smoke Bomb Hill at Ft.  Bragg,  N.C.  I did these things,=20
     though the nine months at Ft.  Bragg was more than a little tough.=20
     Still  and all,  I and a lot of others made it,  and cast our fate=20
     with  this  hodgepodge of duties and assignments.  Not so sure  if=20
     that's good or bad. 'Course, this whole thin'  wouldn't be here if=20
     it didn't require a particular off-center set of mind to walk into=20
     this with your eyes wide open.=20
     We'd all "go anywhere, do anything,  as long as we have our hats."=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 49
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     It was a secondary credo. And guerilla warfare sounds so romantic.=20
     'Course, I've yet to meet a real guerilla....
     But  we  also did lots of other things.  In Latin America  we  did=20
     trainin' and medical assistance missions. In Europe we worked with=20
     NATO,  and prepared to fight the red hordes.  In Viet Nam we built=20
     the region's third largest army out of Montagnards, Hmong, and the=20
     other hill people of SEA. Out on the A-camps they fought a more or=20
     less conventional war against Charlie and big brother Chuck.  They=20
     were good with the isolated nature of the long border.  Let's face=20
     it, a guy whose whole life is based on bein'  allowed to jump into=20
     Hungary and overthrow the government is not all with us, mentally.  =
     It is a very special kind of madness. I know, I was mad too.
     And because we were crazy enough to do it,  and had some tentative=20
     contact  with the spooks from that "first mission",  they found us=20
     available to accept special operations no one else wanted.  It was=20
     a bad move. The trainin' wasn't really applicable.
     But it made me what and who I am.
     September 1969,  and I'm in D.C.  finishin'  language school for a=20
     language I already speak. The wife and Mike Jr. have already taken=20
     off for California,  and I'm bachin'  it in the barracks.  Hey,  a=20
     Spec.  4  doesn't have a lot of money,  and D.C.  is an  expensive=20
     place, even in '69. You do what you gotta do.
     It's  the last couple weeks of class,  and everyone is pretty much=20
     on cruise control.  It's a twelve person class,  and ten of us are=20
     bound  for  8th  SFG in Panama.  We hang out a  lot  after  class,=20
     usually at Louie's, about two blocks from the school. Little place=20
     with  a  couple of pool tables run by a WWII Marine vet  who  buys=20
     nigh  on to every other round.  Name was Louie,  of course.  Never=20
     knew the last name. It didn't matter.  Anyway,  we hung there most=20
     evenings, playin' pool and generally chillin' out.
     One  night we walk in and this group of construction dudes has the=20
     tables  and just about owns the place.  We look at Louie,  and  he=20
     just  shrugs.  He's  gotta make some money,  so we just pull up  a=20
     booth and get a round. They gotta leave sometime, y'know.=20
     Only  they  don't.  An hour later,  it's beginnin'  to  look  like=20
     they're  here for an evenin'  of trouble.  They've already started=20
     hasslin'  Louie.  But they're still payin',  so Louie puts up with=20
     it.  We're  in  uniform,  and know what will happen if we  try  to=20
     intervene  and  send 'em on their way.  None of us want delays  in=20
     orders to Panama, so we start to plan. This,  of course,  requires=20
     another round.
     I've had too much, and I really wanna play some eight ball. Bill's=20
     also  had to much,  so he's my volunteer.  I grab Bill by the hand=20
     and we walk over to the nearest pool table and jump on it, kissin'=20
     and rubbin'  and really carryin'  on.  The construction guys can't=20
     believe their eyes and start yellin'.  Behind the bar,  Louie just=20
     smiles.   This  goes on for a couple minutes and the  construction=20
     dudes stomp out screamin' about fags and shit.  Bill and I get up,=20
     I rack. The place is ours again.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 50
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     "Wild Bill" Wiegart,  an old E-8 who was in school with us,  looks=20
     up  at  Louie with a big grin and says "I'll buy the next one  for=20
     the Sweet Thing there, with the rack."  Louie just loses it and we=20
     fear we're gonna hafta take him to the hospital.
     You never know when a name'll stick. I was the "Sweet Thing" until=20
     I left the Army in '75.
     Jungles  are funny places.  At least the ones in Panama  are.  The=20
     ones in SEA might deserve another adjective.  But I didn't see any=20
     serious ones there.  The Central Highlands is NOT jungle.  And the=20
     ones out west are not even in the same league.
     But I spent some time in the woods in Panama,  too.  And elsewhere=20
     in  South America.  The Amazon is an amazin'  place,  huge  beyond=20
     belief.  The jungles in Panama were worse.  Worst I ever saw.  The=20
     Darien.  That  part  of  Panama that stretches from the  Canal  to=20
     Columbia.  Godawful  jungle.  No  trails,  no people,  few  ground=20
     dwellin'  animals  of decent size.  Couldn't move.  Terrain is too=20
     steep.  I  mean,  you  come virtually straight up from  a  stream,=20
     there's  a  strin'  of trees,  and you drop straight back down  to=20
     another stream.  You gotta like water.  You spend a lot of time in=20
     You  don't sleep on the ground there.  Oh,  it's not 'cause of the=20
     critters,  though  that  could certainly do it.  Lots and lots  of=20
     snakes and creepy crawly monstrosities with claws and stingers and=20
     teeth.  But the main reason is the terrain -  nothin'  to lay flat=20
     on.  You  carry a hammock.  The Army called 'em "jungle  hammocks"=20
     'cause  they  built in the 'squito netting.  At least you can  get=20
     horizontal.  What  you  do  is get a couple three-foot  sticks  of=20
     around  three-quarter  inch  in  diameter,  run  'em  through  the=20
     spreaders  in the ends,  hang it up,  tie up the net and use  your=20
     poncho  to make a roof -  kinda like an A-frame with palm branches=20
     poked  across from grommet to grommet.  You get so you can put the=20
     whole shebang up in under five minutes,  raw materials permittin'.=20
     And  you  always use your poncho liner.  The jungle gets  cold  at=20
     night -  all the moisture still in the air.  Didn't think it would=20
     get cold like that....
     But  then  there's  the thorns.  Lots of thorns.  In  the  Darien,=20
     everythin'  has  thorns.  Everything.  The grass has thorns -  saw=20
     grass is NOT nice.  Palm fronds have thorns.  Flowers have thorns.=20
     Many trees have long needle-like thorns hangin'  down all over the=20
     "bark." Black palms. Berries have thorns.  Not the little pathetic=20
     things that wild black berries do, but the real "ah, shit!"  kind.=20
     You  can't reach out and grab ANYTHING,  'cause you'll regret  it.=20
     Too  hot durin'  the day to wear any kind of gloves that would  do=20
     any good. Some guys wore 'em, anyway. Not me,  I just tried not to=20
     touch anything.
     The  biggest  eye-opener  was a stand  of  two-foot-plus  diameter=20
     trees. The ground was only about a forty-five degree slope,  so we=20
     stopped  for  a break and leaned against these big old  hardwoods.=20
     For  about two seconds.  They were covered with Hershey Kiss sized=20
     and shaped thorns. Everythin' had thorns!
     Well, of course, not everythin'. Just the vegetation.  The animals=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 51
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     were all toxic,  instead.  Except for the local porcupine cousins.=20
     They were both. Insects, snakes, lizards,  frogs,  rodents.  Their=20
     bites were all bad. Anythin'  bit you,  and you just swelled right=20
     on up. If you lived. Which most of us did, whether we wanted to or=20
     not.  The  Darien is not a good place to find out you are allergic=20
     to anti-venom. Take my word for that, I know.
     Sometimes the thorns and the toxins joined forces.  Acacias.  Base=20
     of  every  thorn  had an ant hole.  Every ant was a  devout  human=20
     hater. Worse when the tree died, too. Lean against it and it would=20
     crumble, rainin' fire ants. Hated the damn things.
     And  noisy.  Jungles are NOT quiet places.  Monkeys scream,  howl,=20
     bark. Lizards whistle.  Birds make every noise imaginable.  Little=20
     rodents can scream, too.  Just like a wounded rabbit.  Nasty.  Big=20
     cats cough. Everythin' rustles and scurries.  The insects drone in=20
     unbelievable numbers - unless you've been to the North Slope, then=20
     you believe.
     Finally,  there's  the rain.  You gotta love dry season,  where it=20
     only  rains two or three times a week instead of the two or  three=20
     times  a day.  That's noisy too,  but not toxic.  But it does make=20
     movin' a real bitch. Not a lot of thunder and lightnin'.  The rain=20
     on your poncho can be even louder, though. Forget about dry socks,=20
     or  drawers,  or anythin'.  Guns rust overnight.  Radios short out=20
     without absolute protection. Everythin' gets wet,  especially you.=20
     Sometimes you don't even bother with the ponchos.  They don't work=20
     all that well, anyway, in the heat.
     Actually,  I  kinda liked the Central Highlands.  There were  flat=20
     spots where nothin' had thorns or tried to eat you.=20
     Coulda been worse....
     The year is 1970. I'm stationed at Ft.  Gulick in the Panama Canal=20
     Zone.  Nice  place to be,  all in all.  Old Spanish forts still in=20
     ruins  from when the pirates got ticked  off,  outstandin'  divin'=20
     waters, the jungle, the canal - just tons of things to do,  places=20
     to go, people to meet. I spoke Latin American Spanish like a Cuban=20
     (the  teacher was,  so what do you expect?),  and the natives were=20
     friendly.  It's an accompanied tour,  so my wife and my number two=20
     son are with me. (The wife who "Dear Johned" me in SEA.) =20
     Spent  less  than  half my tour  actually  in-country.  Group  was=20
     forever and a day sendin' us off to exotic places to train,  or do=20
     medical aid, or just to get to know the terrain.  This was a ball,=20
     and  one  of the reasons I didn't make some of the classic  "ugly-
     American" errors in Viet Nam later.  Made 'em in Latin America and=20
     got "larned purty good." Anyway, one of those trip was to Honduras=20
     with the OAS. =20
     You may recall the '68 "soccer war" between Salvador and Honduras.=20
     Didn't last long, mostly 'cause neither side had a lot of money to=20
     spend  on it.  The cause was basically surplus population in  each=20
     country  kinda  ignorin'  the  border when they  built  their  new=20
     abodes.  That  is  a  rough  border  to  cover  -  jungle,  hills,=20
     banditos.... So in comes the OAS. (Locally, the OEA - Organizacion=20
     de  los  Estados Americanos.)  Modeled on border watches from  the=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 52
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     U.N. The U.S. provided very few "observers," as we gringos are NOT=20
     tremendously loved in Central America for some obscure reason. But=20
     only the U.S. had the resources to provide helicopters and a radio=20
     network. These came out of Panama. With 'em came pilots and flight=20
     crews  for  the  whirly birds and operators for  the  radios.  Oh,=20
     officially I was a "United States Counterpart," but it didn't fool=20
     anyone. I was there to make commo - which I do pretty good. =20
     The place I got sent was Nuevo Ocotepeque -  called simply "Ocot=82"=
     by  the citizens.  It's in Honduras,  just across the border  from=20
     Metapan  in  Salvador.  Metapan was a military site,  so  the  OAS=20
     station  on the other side was Chalatenango -  "Chalat=82."  None of=
     these are what could be called big cities.  The air strip at Ocot=82=
     was  so small that I had to go in by chopper -  an Otter  couldn't=20
     land there - and that's small! =20
     I was to live in a Capuchin friary.  (OFM Cap.)  The radio (AN/PRC=20
     74 -  a multi-banded larger siblin'  to the PRC 25's and 77's used=20
     in SEA) was in a converted counselin' room, and I had a bunk in an=20
     unoccupied  friar's  room  on  the  back  side.  Like  most  such,=20
     throughout Latin America, the church sat on one side, the hacienda=20
     makin' the other three sides for the patio.  The patio was roughly=20
     square -  maybe fifty meters to a side.  It was fully planted with=20
     jungle flowers except for a small kitchen garden on the south side=20
     near the back gate. In the center was a fair sized stone fountain.=20
     Straight out of "Mission". It was splendid! =20
     Outside of the friary,  the town was a classic,  dirt poor Central=20
     American  town.  There was a Viejo Ocotopeque,  down by the river,=20
     but it was just a few shacks and the old mission. A flood had gone=20
     through around 1960,  and only the church,  on a very slight rise,=20
     had  survived.  They'd rebuilt uphill about a kilometer.  Hard  to=20
     describe if you've never been to such a place.  Very few places in=20
     our  country know such poverty.  There had been grand plans  once,=20
     and large boulevards had been laid out.  The curbs were even laid.=20
     But  he city manager had decamped with the money for  paving,  and=20
     there  it  still  sat.  I made the rounds with the  padres  -  the=20
     medical  ones.   No  doctors  for a hundred miles,  and  the  folk=20
     medicine  men couldn't carry the load.  So,  we Green Beanie types=20
     smuggled  in  drugs and equipment,  and the padres  played  doctor=20
     without a license. Wasn't good, but better than nothin'. =20
     Makin' the rounds there was like steppin' back in time. I won't go=20
     into details of the poverty or the disease - they were at least as=20
     bad as you imagine. What struck me as a soldier were other things.=20
     The  town's people were invisible when I wore a uniform -  no  one=20
     anywhere.  I  started  wearin'  civvies,  and bingo;  there was  a=20
     population after all. Then I started noticin'  other things.  Long=20
     rows  of pocks in the walls at about four feet above ground level.=20
     Many  houses  lookin'  like  they were hastily  constructed  in  a=20
     crater.  Everyone flinched at loud noises. The place had,  indeed,=20
     known soldiers. I let my hair and beard grow. =20
     The  mission,  of  course,  was on the town plaza.  Well,  it  was=20
     supposed to be a plaza, anyway.  That money had gone with the town=20
     manager,  too.  It  was  simply  a raised area with  some  thirsty=20
     lookin' trees and some scraggly lookin' native shrubs.  Did have a=20
     couple  benches  in the middle,  and a flock of unhealthy  lookin'=20
     pigeons,  though.  In  this  "plaza,"  I  met  the  Lord  and  was=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 53
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     converted.  Not what I'd pictured for such a momentous occasion in=20
     my life. But what's one to do? The time and choosin'  are selected=20
     by other standards than mine, I guess. =20
     The  mission,  like many in Central America,  was staffed by Norte=20
     Americanos. The Capuchins were all from upstate New York.  A bunch=20
     of  good joes,  and that is the understatement of the  year.  They=20
     were workin' missionaries, as likely to be found in a field with a=20
     plow and jeans as in a cloister. Habit was for church -  otherwise=20
     they  looked  like an enlarged version of a local farmer.  When  I=20
     arrived,  there  were four in residence.  I was told that another,=20
     Fr. Mary Francis (he had a "real" name, too,  but I never knew it)=20
     was out on "rounds" - visitin' on mule back the little hamlets and=20
     homesteads  scattered in the surroundin'  hills.  He came in three=20
     weeks later.=20
     He  wasn't a big man,  maybe 5'9",  130 lbs or so.  He was in  his=20
     sixties, had arthritis and was in generally poor health.  But he'd=20
     been  ridin'  the circuit,  on a mule.  And when the mule couldn't=20
     climb any more, he got off and lead it through the nasty stuff.  I=20
     watched him real closely - had to be insane, don't you know? =20
     The  day  after  he got back and mornin'  prayers  were  said  and=20
     breakfast  eaten,  he went to the plaza.  The window of the  radio=20
     room looked out that way, and it all looked wrong. Must have taken=20
     me half and hour of starin' to figure it out.  He was feedin'  the=20
     pigeons.  Nothin'  earth-shakin'  about  that,  but  you  have  to=20
     remember where and when we are. These pigeons were survivors. They=20
     did NOT go near people -  EVER!  First,  no one spent food on 'em.=20
     Second,  anytime  some  one  tried,  it was a trap and  they  were=20
     destined  for the stewpot.  They avoided people like the plague  -=20
     livin'  off  food  from the wild.  But Fr.  Mary was  feedin'  the=20
     pigeons. And they were swarmin' all over him, sittin' on his head,=20
     his shoulders, his arms.  I was starin'  for half an hour before I=20
     realized  I  was starin'  at an animated picture of  St.  Francis.=20
     Scared the hell out of me. =20
     And then the children came. I don't know where they came from, I'd=20
     never seen so many in town before. The pigeons stayed.  And he fed=20
     the children too.  From somewhere in his brown robe came bread and=20
     cheese. They laughed and shouted and romped and hugged him. All of=20
     'em together -  priest and children and birds.  I didn't know what=20
     to think. Look, I'm a pragmatist, okay?  I only believe that which=20
     I can touch, see, feel, taste, weigh and measure. But I see it. =20
     He is a magnet,  and I am a piece of iron.  I sign off the net and=20
     walk  across the dirt swath that passes for a street.  I know that=20
     I'll  spoil everything,  but I HAVE to go.  Iron has no choice.  I=20
     have no choice.  They do not go.  I am in uniform with a gun on my=20
     belt,  and  the children,  the birds and the padre all welcome  me=20
     like I'd been with 'em just yesterday. We share bread and cheese -=20
     and a can of fruit cocktail I had grabbed and put in a pocket. The=20
     plaza  is  beautiful  today.  The trees are lush  and  heavy  with=20
     leaves, the shrubs are in bloom.  They aren't really,  of course -=20
     but  somehow  they are.  I know the symptoms now,  in  retrospect,=20
     though  I  didn't know 'em then.  I had fallen hopelessly in  love=20
     with the man. We all had -  the children,  the pigeons and me.  He=20
     shone  with  the  light that such of women and men chosen  of  God=20
     alone can carry. I am in love. =20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 54
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     It does not last forever. Duties call to all of us -  children and=20
     pigeons and Father Mary and me.  We meet again many times,  and it=20
     is  never like this again.  Oh,  the birds still mob him,  and the=20
     children romp, but it changes. I see the poverty, the squalor, the=20
     patches sewn in his robe,  the sores on the children's faces.  But=20
     the love remained. Maybe, even,  it grew.   I spoke with the friar=20
     superior. We started lessons the next Saturday, and I was baptized=20
     in the chapel at Ft.  Davis in Panama two months later.  Fr.  Mary=20
     was  back out on the circuit when my relief arrived.  I never  saw=20
     him again. Or rather, perhaps, I have yet to stop seein'  him.  He=20
     died  while  I was in SEA.  There was a little mission across  the=20
     creek on the north side of the CCC camp in Kontum. Van Kaufman and=20
     I  would  go  to mass there every Sunday  we  were  in-camp.  Only=20
     Americans in the crowd.  We would go to confession to a priest who=20
     spoke  no English,  and we received reconciliation in  Vietnamese,=20
     which we did not speak.  Translator not necessary.  The priest,  a=20
     Vietnamese missionary to the 'yards, knew everythin' he needed,  I=20
     I did not cry for Fr. Mary when Fr. Rod (the friar superior) wrote=20
     me. But it wasn't because I couldn't. I figure he just started one=20
     more circuit ride. I keep hopin'  his mule can make it up the hill=20
     I'm  on.  Be nice to sit in the plaza again with the pigeons,  the=20
     padre, and maybe my sons and you and all the others.=20
     Did I tell you it had roses in it once?
     - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
     I'm  not  that much of a story teller,  really -  this one  always=20
     seems to tell itself.  I'm not much of a bible thumper either;  my=20
     faith is kinda a private one. This, however, is different.  Here I=20
     bear witness that God's glory is still upon the earth, in the most=20
     obscure  of  places,  and the saints are alive and well.  My  only=20
     (Really.... Roses! I can still smell 'em.)
     Watch  for  the upcoming issues of NamVet for the continuation  of=20
     Michael's story!
                                          -=3D Joe

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 55
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

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              II  II  I  xIIIIIx  I  II  II     ( 8 88     888 88888)
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                  II  I  I  I  I  I  II         (8 88888 888 88 88)
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                  II  I  I II II  I  II            (8) (I8I8I) 8
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     888 888888888XXXXXII    ...   IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX        XXXXXXjXX
                         II    ..    IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXpX
      The Vietnam Veteran XII          IIXXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXXX
       has relatives in the  III        IIIXXXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXXX
       Old and New Testaments   III        IIIXXXXXXXXXX         XXXXX
       who also experienced loss   II         IIXXXXXXXXX          XXX
       and grief, guilt and shame,   II         IIXXXXXXXXX         XX
       rejection and betrayal,         I          IXXXXXXXXX
       alienation and estrangement,    I          IXXXX  XX
       isolation and withdrawal.        II          IIXXXX
                                          II          IIX
      Adam and Eve tried to hide from God; II          II
      Moses, born Hebrew and raised Egyptian IIII        IIII
       searched long and hard for his real self; II          II
      Job, losing his children and all he owned,   II          II
       became sorely diseased;                       IIII        III
      Biblical Joseph was rejected by his brothers,      II         II
       lied about and imprisoned;                          I
      Peter denied Jesus.                                    II
      "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age"
                           Matthew 28:20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 56
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                                Silver Star
                        By Frederick "Rick" Harvey
                        VETLink #1 - Tampa, Florida
                              (813) 249-8323
                          DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
                    Headquarters, 1st Infantry Division
                         APO San Francisco  96345
     GENERAL ORDERS                                         26 May 1969
     NUMBER    4529                   =20
                         AWARD OF THE SILVER STAR
     1.  TC 320.  The following AWARD is announced.
     HARVEY, FREDERICK W.                CAPTAIN INFANTRY United States
     Company C 1st Battalion  18th Infantry
     Awarded:        Silver Star
     Date of action: 2 February 1969
     Theater:        Republic of Vietnam
     Reason:         For gallantry in action while engaged in military
                     operations involving conflict with an armed=20
                     hostile force in the Republic of Vietnam: On this=20
                     date, Captain Harvey was serving as company=20
                     commander on an operation to reinforce a=20
                     beleaguered friendly unit which had sustained=20
                     casualties.  He organized his elements on line to=20
                     search for two missing injured men in an area=20
                     where a grass fire had been started by gunship=20
                     barrages.  As the command group broke through the=20
                     blazing area, Captain Harvey observed the wounded=20
                     individuals lying in an exposed location under a=20
                     vicious fusillade from the enemy.  With complete=20
                     disregard for his personal safety, he led his=20
                     comrades forward through a hail of hostile rounds. =20
                     While advancing toward the casualties, three=20
                     insurgents jumped from their concealed position=20
                     and placed devastating fire on Captain Harvey and=20
                     his command group.  Although severely wounded, he=20
                     continued forward to the injured companions and=20
                     assisted them until they were pinned down again by=20
                     the aggressor barrage.  Ignoring his painful=20
                     wound, Captain Harvey put forth suppressive=20
                     covering fire which enabled reinforcements to=20
                     reach his position.  His exemplary courage,=20
                     presence of mind during the engagement, and=20
                     outstanding professional leadership were=20
                     instrumental in saving several soldiers' lives. =20
                     Captain Harvey's unquestionable valor while=20
                     engaged in military operations involving close=20
                     combat against numerically superior hostile forces=20
                     is in keeping with the finest traditions of the=20
                     military service and reflects great credit upon=20
                     himself, the 1st Infantry Division, and the United=20
                     States Army.
     Authority:      By direction of the President, as established by=20
                     the Act of Congress, 9 July 1918, and USARV=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 57
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                     Message 16695, dated 1 July 1966.
     OFFICIAL:                               ARCHIE R. HYLE
                                             Colonel, GS
                                             Chief of Staff
     First Lieutenant, FA
     Acting Assistant Adjutant General
                              GETTING WASTED
                        By Frederick "Rick" Harvey
              The personal point of view of getting hit, by a=20
                  former Regular Army Officer in Vietnam
       This  wasn't  the first time I was wounded.   I already had  two=20
     Purple Hearts by February 3rd, 1969,  the day I was hit "for real"=20
     in  the Iron Triangle.   This wasn't even the first tour,  or even=20
     the  first 30 days when most replacements get it.   I was a combat=20
     veteran,  and  I  should have known better.   It was  tougher  the=20
     second time around..   constantly telling men to dig holes deeper,=20
     slogging  away  click after click on jungle patrols,  living  with=20
     firefights  every 5 days;  and lots of near misses.   After awhile=20
     you  get  bored,  and  tired of burning your tongue  on  aluminum-
     tasting   coffee  heated  too-hot  over  burning  chunks  of   C-4=20
     explosive.  I got careless.
       The  first tour equipped me with experience -  a vital  survival=20
     necessity  in  combat.   When I reported to the 173rd Airborne  in=20
     Bien  Hoa for my first tour I was excited and nervous.   It didn't=20
     help when my first duty was to inventory the personal effects of a=20
     man  killed  the day I reported in,  and take out any  letters  or=20
     pictures his mother might object to (he had none).  When I drew my=20
     combat gear from S-4,  the prospects didn't get any rosier.   Next=20
     to the "new" helmets and liners,  with their elastic bands in a C-
     ration box beside them, was a case of "old" helmets,  many of them=20
     had bullet holes through both sides!
       In three days I was "acclimatized" and went to the field to take=20
     over  my  platoon.   The  very  next day one  of  our  squads  was=20
     confronted  by a sniper attack that got Tony L.  through the  leg. =20
     He  died  of shock high in the Vung Tau mountains before we  could=20
     get his dustoff in to lift him out.  It was raining,  and his body=20
     was  limp  like  the squirrels my Dad and I would bag  on  a  fall=20
     hunting trip.  Dead bodies are very difficult to carry.  So by the=20
     time  I  had been in Viet Nam for four days in the first  tour,  I=20
     knew at least what the game looked like.  It was June, 1966.
       At  first I had a tough time getting to sleep.   I just couldn't=20
     figure  out whether I was going to make it or not.   I volunteered=20
     for  the  trip so I couldn't blame anyone but myself for being  in=20
     the middle of this crazy, hot, wet, beautiful, terrifying country,=20
     with sudden death a possibility at every moment.
       It  took me two weeks to sort out this question of survival.   I=20
     think  every  soldier  new to combat goes through  something  like=20
     this.  Eventually, I left it to fate.   It was the monsoon season,=20
     and it rained every day in the afternoon.  One afternoon,  by this=20
     time  we  were out of the mountains and in a rubber plantation  at=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 58
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     Xuan Loc,  I stuck my army issue watch out and let the rain strike=20
     its face.   I told myself that if the second hand went all the way=20
     around  before  a drop had landed in the inner circle of  numbers,=20
     from  the ones from 12 to 24,  then I would be OK.   If a drop did=20
     land inside the inner ring then I would be killed.   Watching that=20
     second hand sweep slowly around the face was about the most heroic=20
     thing  I did!   Certainly it required more guts than what happened=20
     in  the  iron  triangle on the afternoon of  February  3rd,  1969,=20
     during my second tour.
       As I watched this slow motion roulette wheel turn,  the time was=20
     almost  up  at 58 seconds when a drop straddled the  line.   So  I=20
     "decided" I would be shot up a bit "around the edges"  and left it=20
     at  that.   My fear melted away,  and I put philosophical thoughts=20
     aside  to  concentrate  on running my platoon,  and  getting  some=20
     sleep.   There  were  many firefights and skirmishes in the  first=20
     tour,  both  with the 173rd Airborne and in the 5th Special Forces=20
     which  I volunteered to join after I got the standard rotation  to=20
     the  "rear echelon"  after 6 months as a combat platoon leader  in=20
     the 173rd.
       I  was still full of fire when my 6 months of field duty  period=20
     ended  so I volunteered into the 5th Special Forces and joined  an=20
     "A"  camp  A-333  Trai  Bi,  just north of Tay  Ninh.   It  was  a=20
     congenial  bunch  of  guys on our team,  and  all  were  practical=20
     experienced men.  "Cookie,"  our Vietnamese team cook,  was wanted=20
     by the police in Saigon, but we were glad to have him,  and he was=20
     happy  to be out in the fringes at our Cambodian border camp.   He=20
     could cook anything to perfection, including the foot-long section=20
     of  Python our Cambodian mercenaries,  "cowboys"  we called  them,=20
     presented to us once after a patrol up North.
       The  first  tour went well.   I picked up a Purple Heart  for  a=20
     scratch  I  got during a mortar attack at the Nui Ba Den  mountain=20
     base  where I ended my first tour.   I learned a lot about  jungle=20
     operations during this period.
       But  now,  in early 1969,  it was different.   In late '68 I had=20
     come  back  to  Viet  Nam and was assigned  to  the  1st  Infantry=20
     Division.  The short "in-between" tour in the States had been with=20
     the 7th Special Forces and the 82nd Airborne at Ft. Bragg.   I was=20
     a  Company Commander patrolling in Washington,  D.C.,  during  the=20
     riots following the Martin Luther King assassination.  By the time=20
     I  got back to Viet Nam I already suspected that the war was not a=20
     win/lose proposition, but more in the nature of a "way of life."
       If  cats  have  nine lives,  I'm sure human  beings  have  less. =20
     Frankly,  I do not know now how I managed to survive those 2 tours=20
     of "line" duty in outfits like the 173rd, 5th Special Forces,  and=20
     the "Big Red One."   Many of my school buddies,  including my best=20
     friend  from high school who was also a Regular,  didn't.   But in=20
     those  days  you did what you were told to do without  questioning=20
     the politics of it.  That is the "contract" of a Regular, and that=20
     is exactly what we did.
       Running  a  straight-leg company is no joke.   It's amazing  how=20
     hard the newcomers try to get themselves killed.   In Viet Nam the=20
     general  pattern was that someone would get killed,  then for  two=20
     weeks  everyone  would be careful and be alert.   The,  after  two=20
     weeks, it was back to normal, and as the shock wore off people got=20
     careless.  I knew this from my first tour and given my perspective=20
     that  the war was not going to be over soon,  I was determined  to=20
     get my troops back home in one piece!
       I  also knew from observing the tactics of unsuccessful  outfits=20
     that when you get "defensive"  about things you shortly afterwards=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 59
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     get "plastered."   So we were going to run a crack outfit,  and we=20
     did.   In  the  five months preceding that afternoon in  the  Iron=20
     Triangle  we  killed  the enemy and confiscated his rice  and  his=20
     weapons.   13  of  us were wounded in the five  months,  including=20
     myself twice, but not one of us was killed.   We were not a gentle=20
     outfit, and we were constantly in the field.
          I  used to give new replacements three points of advice which=20
     I still think anyone new to battle would be well to heed:
               1.  Keep your eyes and ears open for the first 30
                   days, and your mouth shut.
               2.  In the first 30 days, when someone, regardless
                   of rank, tells you to do something, then do it.
                   Talk about rank later, after it's over.
               3.  For the first 30 days, pick out a man in the=20
                   outfit you think looks like he knows what he
                   is doing, and copy everything he does, just=20
                   the way he does it.
       This advice works for the transition period.  After the first 30=20
     days, if you make it that far,  you've learned a lot and you don't=20
     need advice, you give it.
       Anyway,  it  was five hot,  brutal months of slugging it out  on=20
     motorized patrols, ambushes, NDP (Night Defensive Perimeters)  and=20
     heliborne   insertions.    It  was  actually  going  pretty  well. =20
     Occasionally  we would load up with extra ammo and grenades and we=20
     would  steal  a day in the field from patrol to train.   We  would=20
     practice  letting grenades go off while lying prone nearby,  or 3-
     round  "quick-reaction"  drills,  or  we  would shoot  near  other=20
     members  of the company,  who were under cover,  with captured  VA=20
     AK-47s  to  learn what incoming enemy rounds and  weapons  sounded=20
     like.   This  built a lot of confidence and overcame  gun-shyness. =20
     The  outfit  performed well and we were sneakier than the  "gooks"=20
     who  were infiltrating III Corps in droves prior to TET.   We just=20
     kept winning and winning.   By this time the brass in Viet Nam had=20
     learned  that  SEARCH AND DESTROY didn't work,  and that  settling=20
     down in NDP's to cover the area in depth did.   We spent some time=20
     at  "Holiday Inn,"  an NDP near Binh Me,  and later moved to  "The=20
     Castle,"  a  jungle  base where we played hide-and-seek with a  VC=20
     scout  we called "Pimple Toes"  because of the distinctive imprint=20
     of  his sandals.   We never got Pimple Toes but we nailed a number=20
     of  the  NVA  regulars he was guiding through the  area.   He  was=20
     magic.   Bullets  just  wouldn't touch him,  and he escaped  every=20
     ambush we laid.
       It  wasn't  long after we left The Castle that I was  hit.   The=20
     company  refitted at Di An,  and I got a slight case of bronchitis=20
     and  went to the beach at Vung Tau to recuperate for three days on=20
     doctors  orders.   I was still feeling down when I met my  company=20
     for a new operation in the Iron Triangle on February 3rd, 1969.
       It  was  hotter  than  hell even in the early  morning  when  my=20
     chopper let down on the LZ.   My starched fatigues wilted in about=20
     three  minutes flat.   I almost felt like rolling in the dirt just=20
     to get back "on frequency."
       During  the  three  days  I was away  from  my  outfit,  we  had=20
     inherited  a Recon Platoon led by a fresh new  Lieutenant.   About=20
     the  worst thing that can happen to you when you're new is to have=20
     some outrageous success right off the bat.  Well,  that's what had=20
     happened  to this Lieutenant.   His first operation,  an ambush of=20
     the prior week, had bagged 8 VC KIA, and he never took an incoming=20
     round.  So he was riding pretty high.
       I figured he could find us a place to sleep so I directed him to=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 60
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     take  off to the East to scout for an NDP while I took the company=20
     on patrol to the South.
       About  30  minutes  later there was a great deal of  small  arms=20
     fire, and an explosion about 1 click to the East.   The Lieutenant=20
     came  up  on the radio a little shaken.   He and his men had  been=20
     walking  along a road when they were blown away.   One of his  men=20
     was  completely blown apart by RPG,  another was shot through  the=20
     heart, and his platoon Sergeant was hit.   He and his platoon were=20
     now  compressed  into a circular 30-foot slight  depression  under=20
     murderous  small arms fire from the VC who were maneuvering in for=20
     the  kill.   He  had  stumbled into a perimeter defence  of  a  VC=20
     company base camp, but we didn't know that at the time.
       Time  was critical.   Tom Padden,  the 1st Platoon Leader and  I=20
     started  through the elephant grass with about 30 men to reach the=20
     position.   We  ran.   And somewhere during that one kilometer run=20
     something inside me snapped.
       Without really thinking about it I just got "ticked off."   Here=20
     we were, running at midday through no-visability elephant grass to=20
     rescue  a "Recon"  platoon that didn't know enough not to walk  on=20
       Suddenly, too,  the impossibility of this war,  the never-ending=20
     battle to get men to dig deeper holes, slogging away in the jungle=20
     day after day, the heat - everything -  it just all welled up into=20
     a  "screw  it"  feeling.   Somehow  I just wanted the  war  to  be=20
     complete, finished, settled.
       As  we ran past the depression I saw that Sgt.  Johnson had been=20
     shot through the chest and had a sucking chest wound.  Up the road=20
     were a pair of boots.  The owner had been blown right out of them! =20
     The  smoldering remains of the man who was hit by the RPG  (Rocket=20
     Propelled Grenade)  was lying like a charcoal lump with small arms=20
     ammunition  exploding in the flaming remains of his ammo  pouches. =20
     The  men  lying in the depression were in shock and wanted  to  be=20
     lifted  out  by  chopper.   Through my mind went a single  word  -=20
     attack!   I pulled my 45-caliber pistol and continued with Michele=20
     and  Prosik,  the radio men,  into the killing zone.   I used poor=20
     judgement.   I  did not take the time to get suppressive fire laid=20
     in.  As we walked into the area past the bodies, Michele remarked,=20
     "Isn't  this  dangerous,  sir?"   I replied,  "You have to die  of=20
     something, Michelle."
          About on the last syllable of this sentence of mine,  I heard=20
     someone  should  "Gooks!"  from behind me.   Without  thinking,  I=20
     pitched  forward into a dive-roll as an automatic weapon began  to=20
     tear  up  the dirt around us.   For what seemed like  an  eternity=20
     nothing  was  happening  except the merciless crack and  thuds  of=20
     automatic incoming.   Then in a wave of white-hot heat,  I was hit=20
     from behind with what felt like a baseball bat!  It must have been=20
     an RPG round hitting the road behind me.  It was so hard I thought=20
     I had a bloody nose, and I saw stars.   It was obvious Michele was=20
     right;  this  was dangerous!   The impact sobered me up  fast!   I=20
     picked  myself  up and dive-rolled again behind a small  dike  and=20
     yelled to Michele and Prosik to follow.
       When I looked down at my legs, I was fascinated with what I saw. =20
     Holes, holes, holes -  everywhere.   Michele had a slight wound on=20
     his left wrist and Prosik wasn't hit - but I was full of holes!
       Both  my boots were pierced in several places and I could see  a=20
     gaping  wound in my left leg inside my thigh.   Blood was spurting=20
     out with every heartbeat.  There was no pain at all.
       Then  I  heard  noises from the direction we had just  left  and=20
     attempted  to  fire my pistol through the burning grass.   It  was=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 61
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     jammed!   Here  was  my chance to finally use one of these  famous=20
     45's at close range and it had a brass casing jammed right up into=20
     the breach!  I threw a grenade instead, and whatever or whoever it=20
     was  went  away.   I realized later that when I got hit my  finger=20
     must  have reflexed,  firing the pistol,  and the blast and  force=20
     caused the bolt to slam forward on the expended casing.
          Not long after the 1st Platoon broke through from the West on=20
     line and placed devastating fire on the enemy position long enough=20
     to cover our retreat.   There were a welcome sight.   It seemed to=20
     be  getting dark,  which I thought was curious in view of the fact=20
     that it was noon and not a cloud in the sky.   Then I had feelings=20
     of being dragged on a nylon blanket to the belly of a gunship.   I=20
     was  loaded on-board right up under the blazing gun-barrel of  the=20
     M-60 machine gun which was laying in covering fire.  How beautiful=20
     it was!  Flashes, explosions, and the chopper prop blast got mixed=20
     up together as the chopper was lifting.  Then blackness came in on=20
     me and I sort of drifted off.
       I regained consciousness at about 2000 feet,  high over the rice=20
     paddies of III Corps.   The cooler air probably brought me around,=20
     and  I  found  myself lying face down in a pile  of  M-60  casings=20
     rattling about on the metal floor of the gunship.
       I asked the gunner for a cigarette which he lit up for me.   God=20
     did  it  taste  bitter!   I was on my way to the  93rd  evacuation=20
     hospital,  leaving the jungle and the war behind.   I had a slight=20
     stomachache by now -  which later turned out to be shrapnel inside=20
     my thorax.  We counted 29 holes when I got to the hospital.
       One fascinating thing about a firefight is it either works great=20
     or  it's  a  disaster.   The forces involved  are  so  murderously=20
     intense  that there is rarely a middle-ground.   Good  preparation=20
     and  thinking  out the possible screwy ways things could go  wrong=20
     counts  for  a lot.   The enemy is always "doing it  wrong,"  like=20
     walking up trail "B"  behind you,  just when you laid in ambush on=20
     trail  "A"  in  front  (which  happened to  me  once).   And  it's=20
     important  to watch yourself for signs of the "screw it"  attitude=20
     because that leads to mistakes and impulsiveness.
       In jungle fighting the first to fire has a great advantage.  And=20
     in  spite of the school about attacking the ambush,  it's best  to=20
     break  contact with grenades and small arms fire while backing out=20
     the  way  you came in.   That way you can sort out  the  situation=20
     somewhat before you're in the middle of it.

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 62
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     .       =3DDMZ=3D          Camp Carroll__Con Thien        =3DDMZ=3D   =
     .                             |___/  \_ Quang Tri                   .
     .                      Khe   (|  *  *  \                            .
     .                      Sanh-/\*  * Dong \Camp Evans                 .
     .                      (Hawk  \_/\  Ha  *\_ Hue                     .
     .                        LZ)   /  \_        \Phu Bai                .
     .                            Cam Lo \_Bastogne\_                    .
     .                                     \ An.     )Da Nang            .
     .                                    /   Hoa    \ (Marble           .
     .                                   (  -------   \_Mountain)        .
     .                                    \ I CORPS     \__              .
     .                                      \------ Hoi    \ Chu Lai     .
     .                                        \     An      !            .
     .                                       /\_____        !            .
     .                                      /       !    Duc \           .
     .                                      ! Ben   !___   Pho\          .
     .                                      ! Het       \/\____!         .
     .                                      !                 !English LZ.
     .                                     /      Pleiku      ! Bong     .
     .                                    / Camp             /   Son     .
     .             V I E T N A M          ! Holloway  Happy  \_Hammond   .
     .                                    !     Camp  Valley   \    LZ   .
     .                                     \    Enarl  An Khe   )        .
     .                                      \                Qui)        .
     .                                       \     \        Nhon\        .
     .                                       /    Oasis         /        .
     .                                      (                   !        .
     .                                      _\    --------      !        .
     .                                     /      II CORPS    Tuy\       .
     .                                     \      --------    Hoa \      .
     .                                      !                    /       .
     .                                    _/Ban Me              /        .
     .         ---------                _/  Thuot         Nha  /         .
     .         III CORPS       Song Be_/                  Trang!         .
     .         --------\Quan Loi  __/  \                       !         .
     .             Katum\_____( )/An Loc!             Dong Ba  !         .
     .                  /Dau    Loc Ninh!__              Thin  ! Cam     .
     .             Tay /Tieng              \                  / Ranh     .
     .             Ninh\     Phu  Phuoc Yinh\     Dalat      /   Bay     .
     .                  !     Loi            \            __/            .
     .            Lai Khe\--*  Di An          \       ___/ Phan          .
     .               Cu Chi\     Bien Hoa      \    _/      Rang         .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_Tan San  Long Binh !__/                     .
     .       !               ( Nhut  Bearcat ___/                        .
     .  _____! An Long        \__Long Thanh_/                            .
     . !                           | . \/  Long Giao                     .
     .  \___          My          /| \/ \  (Black Horse)                 .
     .      \         Tho  Dong  / |   \ Vung Tau                        .
     .       )Vinh Long     Tam /  |  Saigon                             .
     .      /                \\ ! Tan An                                 .
     .     /Can Tho   Phu  ___\\|                                        .
     .    /--------    Vinh                                              .
     .    !IV CORPS\ \     /                                             .
     .    !-------- \ \__/ (Due to rectangular restrictions of character .
     .    !  Soc    /       placements/positions, locations approximate) .
     .    ! Trang /                                                      .
     .    !   __/                                                        .
     .     \_/                                                    gjp    .
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 63
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                    Veteran commo from Uncle Sam and ...

                   "Ask the Veterans' Affairs Counselor"
                  Office of Public Affairs - News Service
                    Washington DC 20420  (202) 233-2741
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     (Following  are  representative  questions answered  daily  by  VA=20
     counselors.  Full information is available at any VA office.)
     Q- I'm on active duty in the Marine Corps and have a Certificate of=20
        Eligibility for a VA Loan Guaranty.  Will the certificate expire=20
        when I leave the Marines and become a veteran?
     A- Home  loan  entitlement  is  generally good until  it  is  used. =
        However, service personnel are eligible for the entitlement only=20
        while  they  are  on active duty.   If they  are  discharged  or=20
        released from active duty before using their entitlement,  a new=20
        determination of their eligibility must be made, based on length=20
        of service and the type of discharge received.
     Q- How  much  active  duty  do  I need to be  eligible  for  a  VA-
        guaranteed home loan?
     A- It  depends on when you served.   Prior to 1980,  veterans  must=20
        have  served  at  least 90 days during wartime  (World  War  II,=20
        Korean  Conflict or Vietnam Conflict),  or at least 181 days  of=20
        continuous active duty during peacetime.   Since 1980,  veterans=20
        must  have  served 24 months or the full period for  which  they=20
        were called to serve,  but no less than 181 days (90 days during=20
        the  Persian Gulf War,  which has not yet been formally declared=20
        ended).  The only exception to the minimum periods of service is=20
        for veterans discharged for service-connected disabilities.  All=20
        veterans must have been discharged under other than dishonorable=20
     Q- While  planning a trip to Europe,  I saw picture of the American=20
        Military  Cemetery  in Normandy.   I participated in  the  D-Day=20
        invasion  of Normandy and would like to know how to arrange  for=20
        burial for my wife and myself in that cemetery.
     A- The  Normandy  cemetery and 23 other military cemeteries  around=20
        the  world  are  administered by the American  Battle  Monuments=20
        Commission,   a   small   independent  agency  of  the   federal=20
        government.   More  than 100,000 Americans who died in battle in=20
        World War I and World War II are buried in these cemeteries.  No=20
        additional burials are allowed.
     Q- I  think a rifle salute,  the playing of taps and the folding of=20
        the  burial flag by active duty members of the Armed Forces is a=20
        fitting  honor  for veterans buried in our national  cemeteries. =
        How do you arrange for military honors at a burial?
     A- Only  the appropriate military command can provide such military=20
        honors  at a veteran's burial.   The armed forces provide honors=20
        whenever  an active duty member is buried and for most retirees. =
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 64
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

        They  try to provide honors for veterans whenever they are asked=20
        but,  in  many  cases,  are unable to do so.   The  family  must=20
        request honors.   Often,  the national cemetery staff can assist=20
        the  family to request honors,  but the final decision is up  to=20
        the military command.
     Q- When  my brother-in-law died,  the cemetery where he was  buried=20
        charged  my  sister  $500 for a flat,  bronze  veterans  marker. =
        Aren't these markers free?
     A- The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is authorized to provide=20
        a  headstone or a marker for the unmarked grave of any  eligible=20
        veteran.   There  is no charge for the marker or for shipping it=20
        to  the  burial  place.   However,  the cemetery may  charge  to=20
        install the headstone or marker.  This charge can be substantial=20
        and  families  should inquire about the charge for  installation=20
        when they make final arrangements with the cemetery.
     Q- I  know  VA  provides headstones and markers for the  graves  of=20
        veterans  anywhere  in  the world.   If a grave  marker  is  not=20
        correct, should the marker be returned?  If so, who pays for its=20
     A- If   a   marker  is  incorrect,   contact  a  customer   service=20
        representative in the VA's Office of Memorial Programs (OMP)  in=20
        Washington, D.C.  The nationwide,  toll-free telephone number is=20
        1-800-697-6947, available Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. until=20
        4:30 p.m.  (ET).   When a replacement marker is authorized,  OMP=20
        will  give instructions to destroy the incorrect stone headstone=20
        or  marker and make provisions for the return of a bronze marker=20
        to the manufacturer at government expense.
     Q- Will  VA replace a marker that has deteriorated from exposure to=20
        weather or vandalism?
     A- Vandalized,   stolen  or  deteriorated  headstones  or  markers,=20
        including  those  weather-worn to the extent they are no  longer=20
        legible, will replaced at government expense.   Before approving=20
        replacement, VA's Office of Memorial Programs (OMP)  will need a=20
        photograph of the deteriorated marker,  or a report of vandalism=20
        or theft.  OMP will not replace headstones or markers solely for=20
        cemetery beautification purposes.
     Q- Can  I  get VA benefits under Chapter 106 of the  Montgomery  GI=20
        Bill (Selected Reserve) for flight training?
     A- You  may  take  flight training  from  September  30,  1990,  to=20
        September 30, 1994.  You must have a private pilot's license and=20
        meet  physical  requirements  for a  commercial  license  before=20
        beginning training.
     Q- Can I get tutorial assistance under Chapter 106?
     A- To qualify,  you must have a deficiency in a subject.   Tutorial=20
        assistance   is  paid  if  the  assistance  is  performed  after=20
        September 30, 1992, and if you are attending school half-time or=20
        more.  Payments are up to $100 per month.
     Q- I  am  eligible  for VA education benefits  under  Chapter  106. =
        Since  I  was  ordered  to active duty  for  six  months  during=20
        Operation Desert Storm,  can I get an extension to the amount of=20
        time allowed to use my benefits?
     A- Yes.   VA  will  extend  the ending date of Chapter 106  by  the=20
        amount  of  time  served on active duty,  plus four  months  for=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 65
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

        members  of  the selected reserve ordered to active duty  during=20
        the Persian Gulf War.
     Q- I  am  a  retired Army officer and have applied  for  disability=20
        compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA).  Will=20
        my grade entitle me to increased compensation?
     A- No.   Military  pay  grade  is not a factor in  determining  the=20
        degree of disability attributed to military service.
     Q- What is a Presidential Memorial Certificate?
     A- A  Presidential  Memorial  Certificate expresses  the  country's=20
        grateful  recognition  of an individual's service in  the  armed=20
        forces  and  bears  the  signature  of  the  President.    These=20
        certificates  are available to the next of kin and other  family=20
        and  friends of deceased eligible veterans or persons who are on=20
        active military duty at time of death.  Apply at any VA regional=20
        office,  the  nearest of which can be reached by calling  1-800-
     Q- My wife is buried in a national cemetery that is now closed.  We=20
        always planned to be buried together.  What can I do?
     A- Even a "closed" cemetery can accomodate the burial of the spouse=20
        of  someone already buried there.   "Closed"  only means lack of=20
        space prevents the cemetery from accepting full casketed burials=20
        of those without a spouse already buried in the cemetery.   Most=20
        "closed"  national  cemeteries  can also accommodate  burial  or=20
        inurnment of cremated remains of those otherwise entitled.
     Q- What  is  the difference between VA disability compensation  and=20
     A- Compensation  is  paid  to a veteran with a disability  that  is=20
        related to military service.  While the disability need not be a=20
        result  of  performance of duty,  it must have occurred or  have=20
        been aggravated during military service.  Pension eligibility is=20
        determined  by the income of a veteran and the number of his  or=20
        her  dependents.   To  qualify for pension,  a veteran  must  be=20
        permanently and totally disabled, as determined by VA.
     Q- I  recently had to leave the Army due to the military downsizing=20
        plan.   Is there a program for recently discharged veterans that=20
        may help them get both job training and possible placement?
     A- The  Service  Members Occupational Conversion and  Training  Act=20
        (SMOCTA)  is  a program designed to encourage employers to  hire=20
        and  train veterans.   Jointly implemented by the departments of=20
        Labor,  Defense  and  Veterans Affairs,  SMOCTA is  designed  to=20
        assist  veterans  who  meet specific  eligibility  criteria  and=20
        employers who establish approved training and offer prospects of=20
        long-term  employment  for  participating  veterans.    Eligible=20
        veterans  must be discharged after August 1,  1990.   They  also=20
        must   have  a  military  occupational  specialty  not   readily=20
        transferable  to  the civilian workforce,  or be entitled to  or=20
        eligible  for  compensation  from  VA  for  a  service-connected=20
        disability  rated  30 percent or more,  or be unemployed for  at=20
        least  eight  of  the  15 weeks prior  to  applying  for  SMOCTA=20
        benefits.   SMOCTA  has  been  successful in its  goal  to  help=20
        veterans gain employment.  Through May 31, 1994,  3,478 veterans=20
        had  been  placed in job training and some 4,225  employers  had=20
        been  approved  for  participation.    Interested  veterans  and=20
        employers  should contact their local Employment or Job  Service=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 66
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

        for  details,  applications  and assistance.   They are  usually=20
        listed  under  State  Government  in  the  telephone  directory. =
        Veterans may also call VA toll-free at 1-800-827-1000.
     Q- Is  it possible to participate in the SMOCTA program and receive=20
        educational benefits under the GI Bill at the same time?
     A- No.   You may not receive VA education benefits at the same time=20
        that  your  employer receives payments for your  training  under=20
     Q- My  father died of a service-related condition,  and I  received=20
        education  benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)=20
        until  I had to leave school due to illness.   I am now able  to=20
        resume my education.  Can my eligibility period be extended?
     A- Maybe.   Va  can extend the time you have to use your  education=20
        benefits  if your education was interrupted due to circumstances=20
        beyond  your control.   Generally,  children must be between the=20
        ages  of  18 and 26 to receive benefits.   No extension  can  go=20
        beyond a dependent's 31st birthday.  For more information,  call=20
        1-800-827-1000 for the VA Regional Office nearest you.
     Q- How long is a veteran eligible for VA educational assistance?
     A- Benefits  under Chapter 30 (Montgomery GI Bill-Active Duty)  and=20
        Chapter 32 (Veterans'  Educational Assistance Program,  or VEAP)=20
        end  10 years from the date of discharge or release from  active=20
        duty.   In  most cases,  benefits for Chapter 106 (Montgomery GI=20
        Bill-Selected  Reserve)  end 10 years from the date the  veteran=20
        became  eligible  for  the program,  as long  as  the  reservist=20
        remains in the Selected Reserve.   Otherwise,  benefits end with=20
        the  termination  of service.   Individuals separated  from  the=20
        Selected Reserve between Oct. 1, 1991, and Sept. 30,  1995,  due=20
        to  inactivation  of their unit or having to leave the  Selected=20
        Reserve  involuntarily  may have the full 10 years to use  their=20
     Q- I am a divorced veteran.  Can I remove my ex-wife as beneficiary=20
        on my VA life insurance policy?
     A- Yes.   Your  Government  Life Insurance contract gives  you  the=20
        right to designate or change your beneficiary at any time.   You=20
        can do so without the beneficiary's consent or knowledge.   Call=20
        the  VA Insurance Center at 1-800-669-8477 to request a form  to=20
        change your beneficiary.

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 67
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                              Bits and Pieces
      From and Posted By Earl Appleby in the Ablenews Echo Conference
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory         =20
                       VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     "The white stones used in some patios, driveways,  and walkways in=20
     the  Washington  area have names and dates engraved on  one  side.=20
     Thousands  of weathered and damaged burial markers from graves  at=20
     Arlington  National  Cemetery have been discarded over the  years,=20
     and  many  ...  were  scavenged from landfills and used  for  home=20
     projects, cemetery officials said ...  The markers used to be left=20
     intact  at  a landfill.  In 1987,  the cemetery began  pulverizing=20
     discarded  grave stones,  the spokesman said,  in part because  of=20
     calls  from those who found the markers that had been discarded in=20
     earlier  years.  Arlington National Cemetery is the best known  of=20
     the country's more than 100 military cemeteries ...  More than 160=20
     of the stones,  turned face down,  were made into a patio behind a=20
     Northeast  Washington  apartment building.   In the basement  were=20
     three more of the large, group markers inscribed with the names of=20
     19  men who died in World War II.  Vietnam-era veteran Ed Siemion,=20
     hired to repair one of the four apartments,  discovered the stones=20
     and  showed  them  to  a reporter 'It gave me chills  when  I  saw=20
     them.'"  (Homeowners  Find Grave Markers in Yards,  Patios,  Linda=20
     Wheeler, Washington Post, 5/31/94)=20
     ABLEnews  Editor's  Note:  We  commend  Mr.  Siemion  for  calling=20
     attention   to  this  despicable  situation  and  we  deplore  the=20
     seemingly  cavalier attitude of Arlington's deputy  superintendent=20
     Herman  Higgenbottom,  who  was  quoting  as  saying,  "It's  just=20
     somebody  making use of discarded government property.  He is  not=20
     the  first  one,  for  sure."  Such  callous  comments  reflect  a=20
     government  bureaucracy that often treats the American veteran  as=20
     "discarded government property."=20
     "As  Washington  awoke on Memorial Day morning 11 families sat  on=20
     folding chairs on a grassy hill and,  far away from the day's more=20
     elaborate events, cried in each others' arms. The Vietnam Veterans=20
     Memorial  ebbed  like a black wave in the distance.  The names  of=20
     their loved one could not be on that granite wall because,  unlike=20
     the  dead whose sacrifice was etched there,  their loved ones  had=20
     died after the fighting had ended -- of Agent Orange poisoning, of=20
     injuries  that never healed,  suicides.  In a war that has  seemed=20
     exiled from the brotherhood of conflicts,  these dead are the lost=20
     veterans."  (Remembering  Those the Wall Forgot,  Lorraine  Adams,=20
     Washington Post, 5/31/94)=20
     "Prodded by veterans who say they have been forsaken by the nation=20
     they  served,  the Clinton administration endorsed a bill Thursday=20
     that   would  compensate  victims  of  mysterious  'Persian   Gulf=20
     Syndrome'  ailments.  'This legislation is revolutionary.  We have=20
     never before approved payment for something we're not even certain=20
     exists,'  Veteran  Affairs Secretary Jesse Brown said in testimony=20
     to  a  House  Veteran Affairs panel  'We're heading in  the  right=20
     direction  although  we still have a long way to  go,'  said  Phil=20
     Budahn,  spokesman for the American Legion.  'We would have wished=20
     it had been faster.'" (Syndrome Pay, Martinsburg Journal, 6/10/94)=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 68
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     ABLEnews  Editor's Note:  It took some 15 years for the government=20
     to take similar action on behalf of Agent Orange victims after the=20
     Vietnam War.
                            Stumped For Stamps?
        Reprinted with permission from VVA Chapter #348, Orange,TX
                              Author Unknown
                         Submitted by Joyce Flory
                     With thanks to Gerald Thibodeaux
                       VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
       For  years  we  have  been trying to get a  stamp  honoring  our=20
     POW/MIA's.   We  never  came close to succeeding.   It  seems  our=20
     Postal  Service would rather honor birds,  sea shells and  flowers=20
     and people who have made millions of dollars in their professions. =20
     People  who  never  knew  the meaning of pain  and  suffering  and=20
     torture are being honored by the USPS.   They spend over a million=20
     dollars  to  find  out  which picture of Elvis  Presley  would  be=20
     preferred.  (Now  they are having to raise the price on  postage). =20
     They decide to honor an Afro-American cowboy,  Used the right name=20
     - wrong picture - mega-bucks to correct their mistake.  The latest=20
     stamp  to  come  out is the one honoring the Vietnamese  New  Year=20
     (year  of  the  dog).   I am not against honoring  our  Vietnamese=20
     friends holidays,  BUT,  if they can't comply to the wishes of the=20
     people,  why  not one stamp with the picture of the USA or  planet=20
     earth and leave it at that.  They would save enough money annually=20
     to  reduce  the  cost of postage and operate in the  green  for  a=20
     change.   Men  who  have given their all for the freedom we  enjoy=20
     will  more than likely NEVER be honored by any of our Governmental=20

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 69
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                                VETLink #50
                            By Jeff Beer, SysOp
                      VETLink #50 - Fairfield Bay, AR
                              (501) 884-6277
     (Contact System Operator Jeff Beer @(501)884-6352 for more=20
                                Now On-Line
                  (501) 884-6277 by Modem - 24 hrs/7 days
          Fairfield Bay's First Electronic Bulletin Board System
     You can now use that telephone modem that's been sitting on your=20
     desktop getting dusty!
                    VETLink #50/Fairfield Bay VETS BBS
      This BBS is dedicated to Veterans, their families and friends,=20
     and other interested people.  All are welcome to use the system. =20
     The system is free to use; Many system charge "Access Fee's" or=20
     REQUIRE "Donations."  I will accept donations, but do not require=20
     them.  All donations go to system maintenance, to pay the phone=20
     bills and/or to expand the system.
       INTERNATIONAL MAIL:  As a certified VETLink (tm) Bulletin Board=20
     System, this BBS offers the VETNet E-mail message network as well=20
     as Fido-Net international message conferencing.  In addition, Net-
     Mail offers an E-Mail link to commercial services including=20
     Compuserve (tm), America On-Line (tm) and Prodigy (tm).  E-Mail=20
     service to and from the Internet is also available.
       LOCAL MESSAGING:  In addition to the Message Conferencing above,=20
     the system also carries LOCAL message bases.  These message areas=20
     are for the use of people who directly call the BBS, as opposed to=20
     messages sent through the networks.  These local message bases=20
     support private mail, carbon copy and message forwarding.
       ON-LINE GAMES:  Currently, there are 3 on-line (real time) games=20
     available for your enjoyment.  As I find more quality, enjoyable=20
     games, I will add them.
       FILE UPLOAD AND DOWNLOAD:  The BBS carries a growing amount of=20
     'share-ware' and 'free-ware' PC software that you can download for=20
     your own use.  The software includes games for DOS and Windows,=20
     system utilities, PC communications, business applications and=20
     many other types of software.  As storage space increases, graphic=20
     images will be included.  In addition, you can use the system to=20
     transfer files, both programs and data, from you to anyone you=20
     desire.  NO COMMERCIAL (off-the-shelf) software is available, and=20
     cannot be transferred to the system.  'ADULT' software and/or=20
     graphic images are not available and will not be tolerated.  This=20
     is a family oriented system.
       FAX SERVICES:  LOCAL faxing will be available soon.  Faxes sent=20
     through the system cannot include graphics at the moment.  Faxes=20
     must be typed into the system on-line, and the message editor does=20
     not support graphic images.  Incoming fax reception is not=20
     currently supported, but will be added when the software upgrade=20
     becomes available.  FaxBack services are currently supported. =20
     Local charities and service organizations can utilize the system=20
     for this function.  To discuss using the system for FaxBack,=20
     contact the System Operator on-line.
       HOW TO CALL:  Using your communication software, set your=20
     telephone modem to IBM compatible mode (No parity, 8 data bits, 1=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 70
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     stop bit).  IBM (DOS) callers should have the DOS utility ANSI.SYS=20
     loaded before you call to insure proper screen color translation. =20
     Have our communications software dial 1-501-884-6277, and follow=20
     the instructions on your screen.  If you get a busy signal, let=20
     the software keep dialing - there is only one phone line available=20
     and it has to do several different functions including mail=20
     transfer, fax service and BBS caller use.

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 71
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                          Veteran Legal Assistance
      A compilation of information important to YOU and YOUR VA Claim
     -- Veterans Disability Matters
                        Veterans Disability Matters
                           Submitted by Del Back
                           VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
       Our office handles disability matters for clients throughout the=20
     United States.  The cases we handle involved "unemployability."  A=20
     veteran  who  is  unable to work because  of  a  service-connected=20
     disability  is entitled to a 100%  disability rating ($1,800)  per=20
     month).  For this type of case,  you must be unable to work SOLELY=20
     because of your service-connected disability.
       Legal  fees  for  our  services  are  payable  only  if  we  are=20
     successful  in obtaining additional benefits for you.   The fee is=20
     one-third  of  any back benefits you receive and does  not  effect=20
     your  future benefits.   If you think you might qualify for a 100%=20
     unemployability  rating,  please call us toll free to discuss  the=20
     matter further.
                                Law Offices
                              R. Edward Bates
                                1801 N. Mill
                        Naperville, Illinois  60563
     [Joe Note:   I've talked personally with Attorney Bates concerning=20
     the  above  information submitted by veteran Del Back whereupon  I=20
     was  advised  that his office SPECIALIZES ONLY in  Unemployability=20
     Claims - both before DVA and Social Security. =20
       Federal  law specifically mandates that attorneys CANNOT,  for a=20
     fee  exceeding  $10,  represent veterans before the Department  of=20
     Veteran  Affairs UNLESS the veterans'  claim has progressed to the=20
     CVA (Court of Veteran Appeals) level where, then,  a MAXIMUM of 20=20
     percent  can be charged,  unless otherwise agreed upon in  advance=20
     and written copy of said agreement is on file with CVA. =20
       Attorney Bates advises that his office WOULD LIKE to be involved=20
     with  a veterans'  claim almost from the beginning.   If/should  a=20
     veteran  be  awarded  what  s/he seeks PRIOR to  the  claim  being=20
     presented  to CVA,  Attorney Bates reports that there are no  fees=20
     charged.   Instead,  a  request  is made of the veteran that  s/he=20
     provide  a  donation  to the legal service in order  that  it  can=20
     continue  serving our brother/sister veterans in THEIR search  for=20
     EARNED benefits.]
     Looking for thorough and efficient representation before the Court=20
     of Veteran Appeals?
     Contact VETLink #36 - Rick Bowman, Esq. at 817-335-3338.   Rick is=20
     a  Vietnam  veteran who's gone through what many of you  have  and=20
     he's  helped  many of our brothers and sisters in  pursuing  their=20
     claims through the Court of Veteran Appeals.
     Contact Gerald McDougall, Esq. at 806-355-1202; mailing address is=20
     Post  Office  Box  50898  Amarillo,   TX   79159-0898.    Attorney=20
     McDougall  is a Vietnam veteran who's worked with the legal system=20
     of the military for many years.  His representation,  research and=20
     candid advice have proven very valuable to many Vietnam veterans. =20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 72
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                      Court of Veterans' Appeals News
                       Submitted by Gerald McDougall
                               Amarillo, TX
     Gerald  McDougall,  a  frequent behind-the-scenes  contributor  to=20
     NamVet  and the VETNet echoes,  has shared with us some  important=20
     information received from the PRODIGY (TM) Network.
                             CRIME IN THE BVA!
       One  of the two attorneys accused of tampering with claims files=20
     at  the  Board of Veterans'  Appeals has agreed to enter a  guilty=20
     plea to one count of unlawful removal,  concealment and mutilation=20
     of government records. =20
       The  attorney  worked for the VA as an attorney advisor  to  the=20
     Board of Veterans' Appeals.   His name is LAWRENCE GOTTFRIED,  and=20
     he  was assigned to a panel within the Board of Veterans'  Appeals=20
     which  deals  with  POW cases and cases in which the  veteran  was=20
     seeking a 100% disability rating.   He has worked for the VA since=20
     the  year  1971,  so he may have done a lot of damage to  innocent=20
     veterans. =20
       Anyone  who  has  ever  received a decision from  the  Board  of=20
     Veterans'  Appeals,  whether  it was a remand or a final decision,=20
     has  grounds  to contest the decision if Gottfried was  the  legal=20
     advisor to the Board on the case. =20
       Check  your copy of any BVA decision you have received to see if=20
     his name appears on the copy. =20
       A  similar  case involving another crooked VA attorney is  still=20
     under  investigation.   Gottfried will enter his plea in the  U.S.=20
     District  Court on August 12,  1994,  and he is facing up to three=20
     years in prison for his acts. =20
       Statistics show that for every crime that is reported, up to ten=20
     crimes  go unreported.   If this holds true for the VA  employees,=20
     there  are a lot of dishonest VA employees out there screwing  the=20
     veterans of this country out of their benefits.   We should demand=20
     a complete audit by the Government Accounting Office, conducted by=20
     individuals who are under contract to the G.A.O., but not employed=20
     in any way by the Government as government employees. =20
       How can we trust any government after this scandal?
                           COVA COURT DECISIONS
       We have a new decision from the Court of Appeals for the Federal=20
     Circuit on VA law, and it is not good news for veterans.
       The case is Smith v. Brown, F.3d (1994), 1994 WI.  419540,  Fed.=20
     Cir. D[oc]k[e]t. No. 93-7043 (August 12, 1994). =20
       This  decision deals with the concept of "clear and unmistakable=20
     error" under 38 C.F.R. 3.105(a). =20
       The  Federal Circuit in this case has reversed a decision of the=20
     United  States  Court  of Veterans Appeals that was  favorable  to=20
     veterans.   The  issue  is  whether  the  concept  of  "clear  and=20
     unmistakable error" applies to decisions of the Board of Veterans'=20
     Appeals, or only to decisions by the Regional Office. =20
       The Court of Veterans' Appeals had held that it applies to both. =20
       The  Federal  Circuit  held  that  the  concept  of  "clear  and=20
     unmistakable  error"  applies  only to decisions of  the  Regional=20
     Office. =20
       This means that a veteran seeking retroactive benefits will have=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 73
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     a  much  more difficult time getting such benefits in the  future. =20
       This is how the decision applies -  if a veteran submits a claim=20
     to the VA Regional Office at some time in the past,  and is turned=20
     down,  he  can claim clear and unmistakable error in that decision=20
     if he did not appeal the denial to the Board of Veterans' Appeals. =20
     However,  if  he  did appeal the denial to the Board of  Veterans'=20
     Appeals,  and  that  Board affirmed the decision of  the  Regional=20
     Office,  he  can no longer argue clear and unmistakable error as a=20
     basis  for  getting retroactive benefits.   His only remedy is  to=20
     file  a  Motion  for Reconsideration with the Board  of  Veterans'=20
     Appeals.   If the Board denies his motion for reconsideration,  he=20
     can  only appeal to the Court of Veterans Appeals if the Notice of=20
     Disagreement  which preceded the underlying BVA decision was filed=20
     on or after November 18, 1988. =20
       In other words,  if the BVA decision which you are attacking was=20
     preceded  by  a Notice of Disagreement filed before  November  18,=20
     1988,  and  the Board denies a motion for reconsideration of  that=20
     decision, you cannot seek relief in the Court. =20
       This  whole  process  rewards the veteran who did  not  seek  to=20
     appeal an old VA Regional Office decision, as opposed to a veteran=20
     who  did file such an appeal.   Nevertheless,  that is the overall=20
     effect of this new Court decision. =20
       This  is a very complex issue,  so please do not hesitate to ask=20
     --If  YOU know of an attorney or other helpful person who aids  in=20
     veteran claim presentation or, to the contrary, one who's NOT been=20
     helpful  in veteran claim representation,  let us know!   You  can=20
     contact me at 1-813-885-1241; PO Box 261692, Tampa, FL 33615-1692=20
     or through VETLink #1 at 1-813-249-8323. =20

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 74
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                            Things to think about

                         Mission: Command & Control
                               by Rick Harvey
                           Lake Forest, Illinois
                    Submitted at VETLink #1 - Tampa, FL
                               (813) 249-8313
     [Joe Note:  " ... so from now on we're a team, no hotdoggers and no=20
     shitbirds.   Each  man will be responsible for every other man  and=20
     that includes me. ..." =20
                    from DEAR MOM - A SNIPER'S VIETNAM=20
                                   by Joseph T. Ward
       Those of us who have had military experience KNOW that excellence=20
     of  performance and survival on the battlefield depends not only on=20
     ourselves but also on those next to us and those next to them. Good=20
     military  officers  were especially alert to the survival-value  of=20
       A.M. (After Military), though the battleground may have vanished,=20
     the principles taught haven't.  Care,  concern,  and being oriented=20
     towards the well-being of others didn't get hung in the closet with=20
     dress uniforms.
       It  was  often  okay to occasionally shuffle one's feet  or  lean=20
     against walls whilst in an area that wasn't combat ... yet that was=20
     one thing ya DIDN'T wanna do in an area often marked with tripwires=20
     an' bouncin' betty's an' such - It _could_ cost one their survival.=20
       "Smoke 'em if ya got 'em"  were words that were often welcomed by=20
     soldiers ... _unless_ ya were on night patrol ...  It _could_  cost=20
     one their survival ...
       "Knowledge"  was somethin'  of great value that was often learned=20
     from our service comrades...
       A.M. we're on a different battlefield - one, too, that could cost=20
     our survival or enslave us if we happen to shuffle our feet or take=20
     a  break  when that's exactly what we shouldn't do at a  particular=20
     time in our lives if we're to achieve our objectives...
       Rick Harvey, the author of this article, and his wife Sue, _have_=20
     been on the financial battlefield for a long while.  As is so aptly=20
     described  in  the  title,   they've  worked  out  a  way  to  gain=20
     Command & Control of resources at their disposal in such a way that=20
     they're experiencing the financial and personal freedom Rick and so=20
     many others put their lives on the line for. =20
       As  a "leader" (see SILVER STAR in this issue),  Rick's character=20
     nags  at him to share the knowledge with you,  our reader,  so that=20
     you,   too,   can   experience  excellence  on   _your_   financial=20
     battlefield,  regain  your  freedom,   and  experience  independent=20
     survival.  As a leader,  too,  it's "in his bones"  to try to guide=20
     and  tell you of how the rules CHANGE when you're in a different AO=20
     (Area  of  Operations)  of  your financial journey  (See  QUADRANTS=20
     below) so that ya won't be a shufflin' your feet or takin'  a break=20
     when,  buttressed  by  knowledge,  you  can maintain  your  forward=20
     progress towards command & control of your resources.
       Although "Mission: Command & Control" _is_ carefully detailed and=20
     outlined in this article, Rick and Sue have put together a 40+ page=20
     printed  report that goes even further into the details of "How its=20
     done"  that contains record formats and detailed instructions which=20
     they are offering for sale (See Order form at end of this article).   =
                                                                -=3D Joe ]
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 75
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     Rick  and Sue Harvey married in 1969 and  have  two children.  Rick=20
     was  trained as an engineer,  served in the US Army and fought  two=20
     tours  as  an infantryman in Viet Nam and was highly decorated  for=20
     his combat service (Silver Star, three Purple  hearts, etc.) He has=20
     an advanced business degree and for 13 years worked as a consultant=20
     to  large businesses.   Sue has secretarial training and has worked=20
     as an executive secretary and office manager.   In 1982 the Harveys=20
     had  a small business that was wiped out in the  recession.    They=20
     both  took jobs and were working their way back when Rick was  laid=20
     off from his plant manager position with one company, and Susan got=20
     laid  off  as  an executive secretary in another within a  7  month=20
     period.   They  found themselves with $50,000 of unpaid,  unsecured=20
     "debt."   From  the  experiences they went through during  the  ten=20
     years and two recessions the Harveys formulated their "self=20
     defense"  system  which eventually became the "SUCCESS WITH  MONEY"=20
     plan.   The  lesson they share is a simple one,  but powerful  when=20
     applied.   Rick  and  Sue urge everyone to live a lifestyle   based=20
     upon "current" income, without borrowing against future earnings or=20
     from past savings for "living expenses."
       Many people today are totally fed up.   They are even fed up with=20
     being fed up!!
       They  are  fed up with never having enough money for  themselves.=20
     They  are  disgusted with having to pay off credit cards when  they=20
     can't  even remember what they  bought that racked them up to their=20
     limits.   They  are  concerned about having to write checks at  the=20
     food  store hoping that their paycheck will get to the bank  before=20
     their grocery check arrives for payment.
       They  are  disappointed  that every time they try to get  out  of=20
     financial trouble they just get deeper in!   They are afraid of the=20
     telephone since creditors started calling them all the time to "pay=20
     up or else!".   They can't stand those pink slips they get from the=20
     utilities  directing  them to pay at a cooperating local  store  or=20
     else  their service will be disconnected,  and they will owe a  re-
     connection fee.
       We  know  this,  because  we were one of them!.   We  found  that=20
     getting  free  of  these things wasn't about starting  a  business,=20
     winning  the lottery,  or any other magical  event.   It was  about=20
     taking  control  of  the  financial  condition  of  our  life,  and=20
     understanding  the  game that life has thrust us into,  whether  we=20
     liked it or not!
       If this sounds all too familiar to you, don't despair...  help is=20
     on the way!
       By the way,  you are NOT alone!   For decades the whole civilized=20
     world  has been on a credit binge.   The average person has come to=20
     believe  that  we can go on forever purchasing now  against  future=20
     income.  But what happens when income stops?  That is the situation=20
     we have faced twice.  YOU are the lucky one!  That's right, because=20
     in  your  case  a decision has been made to take  control,  or  you=20
     wouldn't be reading this now.
       As  of this time we are in the midst of a world wide  "recession"=20
     (As  usual!   I have been hearing on the news about the  "recovery"=20
     for about 10 or 12 years now, haven't you?)
       Let me share with you why this material was ever developed.=20
       About  ten  years  ago Sue and I found ourselves  in  deep,  dark=20
     financial trouble.   My business as a consultant had not been going=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 76
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     well.   Although  I  had been successfully in business for about  8=20
     years,  something  had  changed.   No matter what I did or where  I=20
     looked I couldn't seem to sell my projects as I once had.  Finally,=20
     in  a  sales meeting an executive said to me "Rick,  what  you  are=20
     selling (it was cost control technology) is just what we need,  but=20
     if  we  hire you one of US has to go.   So we can't do the  project=20
     because we don't have the funds!"
       That  is when my eyes began to open.   This happened to me in the=20
     summer  of  1982,  about  18 months after the Federal  Reserve  had=20
     initiated one of its "money tightening" periods.
       Do  you  enjoy  being  under financial  pressure?   It's  such  a=20
     seductive trap, isn't it?  It grabs you slowly,  one transaction at=20
     a time,  until you wake up one day fearing the day because you know=20
     that you can't meet everyone's expectations.
       We  have  known the agony of the loss of  self-respect,  and  the=20
     anger  and  despair associated with living life just to pay  others=20
     and  nothing  else.   Becoming financially over-committed  is  like=20
     becoming a snake's prey.   Slowly but surely the lights begin to go=20
     out   until   everything  in  life  becomes   dull,   dismal,   and=20
     discouraging.  A poor financial condition swallows you whole.
       Just  learning  about  something isn't enough.   You have  to  DO=20
     something too!
     "I DID IT!"
       We  ended  1982 out of business and with debts amounting to  over=20
     $50,000  including  unpaid  taxes.   That  experience  started  our=20
     realization  of  several truths that became our ticket out of  debt=20
     and into personal financial freedom.
       One  of  the very first things we had to learn  about  recovering=20
     our economic health is to utilize the "I DID  IT!" point-of-view.
       You see,  it's all very well to blame others or circumstances for=20
     our  troubles,  but by doing so we actually weaken  ourselves,  and=20
     turn ourselves into "victims".  Victims nearly  always lose. If you=20
     turn  yourself into a victim  you become a loser,  and you remain a=20
       The way to become a winner,  and that is what you really are,  is=20
     to take personal responsibility for your circumstances; to take the=20
     "I DID IT!" position about things.
       Can  you  see  why  you have problems when you  blame  others  or=20
     circumstances?  Here's why.
       When you are saying that someone or something other than you "DID=20
     IT"  you  are also admitting to yourself that the power  to  change=20
     things is over there with someone or something other than yourself! =
     And  as  long  as you  consider that you don't have  the  power  to=20
     change your life, you can't, and you won't!!
       The "I did it" philosophy was incorporated into our plan.
       At the scene of an accident the paramedics always try to stop the=20
     bleeding,  and  to  make the accident victim more  comfortable  and=20
     stable before they all rush to the hospital for corrective surgery.
       The  "bleeding"  in  this  case is going deeper and  deeper  into=20
     unsecured  debt.   And  the  way to stop it is  to  stop  borrowing=20
     unsecured money.
       Do  you  worry how your credit rating looks?   We  used  to,  and=20
     wondered  how [what]  we could do to "fix"  it.   What we found was=20
     that  people,  ourselves  included,  who worry about  their  credit=20
     ratings  are  those who are deeply into the debt game (as  we  were=20
     once), with plans to continue in it.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 77
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       If  you  are not borrowing money as a way to  live,  your  credit=20
     rating  can  take  care of itself.   When you are on  the  positive=20
     "black" side of the ledger you will be known as a good credit risk. =
     Until then, your problem is not with your credit rating,  it is the=20
     FACT that you are overextended and in too much debt!
       When we were out of money we kept a careful track of what we gave=20
     up  and  why.   Remember,  I was a consultant so everything  was  a=20
     "study,"  including  the misery we were in!   From the diary of our=20
     progress  in digging out we discovered that there are five definite=20
     priorities of spending, and, to survive, you have to respect them.
                             I.   A PLACE TO BE
                             II.  COMMUNICATIONS
                                    Your Telephone
                                    Gas Money
                                    Car Expenses
                                    Bus Fare
                             III. FOOD AND WATER
                             IV.  HEAT AND LIGHT
                             V.   EVERYTHING ELSE
       We are talking no-nonsense "survival" here.  These priorities are=20
     the  one's  that  emerge when circumstances are so  bad  that  they=20
     become  life threatening -  like a winter with no heat,  or a  home=20
     with no food for instance.
       When  you are down to the last of the cash you must look and  see=20
     if  your  rent  is paid.   If it isn't you better pay it  (or  your=20
     mortgage, etc.).  If you don't have a PLACE to live then you are on=20
     the  street.   And  if  you  let it go that far  your  family  will=20
     disintegrate, and your physical survival will be in jeopardy.
       Now, let's say your rent is paid,  well then it's time to pay the=20
     telephone bill or put gas in the car.  A lot of folks think food is=20
     more important, but it isn't.
       If  you  cannot move your body or your speech (with a  telephone)=20
     around town,  you can't work.   And if you don't work,  you starve.=20
     Sorry,  Virginia,  you must get used to this "work"  thing.   Don't=20
     expect  Uncle Sam,  Santa Claus or any other benefactor to help you=20
     forever, or even for long.  To get work you need to be "plugged in"=20
     and  mobile,  and  that's  why  you  have to  take  care  of  these=20
     COMMUNICATION needs right after you get your PLACE handled.
       After  you  have  paid  for  a PLACE,  and  taken  care  of  your=20
     COMMUNICATIONS needs, then you can eat!   After all,  we don't want=20
     you  to starve.   (If you are really at the end of your rope  check=20
     your  local  supermarket for day-old giveaway food you can pick  up=20
     from  the  manager at closing time.)   FOOD AND WATER is the  third=20
     priority,  and  includes  anything  you must spend  for  sewer  and=20
     garbage pickup or other costs associated with FOOD AND WATER.
       Once  you  have  a roof over your head,  you can get to  the  job=20
     tomorrow, and you are full, then it's time to pay the electric bill=20
     and  the  gas bill.   It's nice to have the  utilities,  but  don't=20
     forget  that  sweaters work,  and that you can heat one room  in  a=20
     house  with a kerosene heater.   You can also light the place  well=20
     enough  to read with kerosene lamps.   You can cook with a kerosene=20
     camp stove.  HEAT AND LIGHT is fourth priority.
       And  after  paying  for  priorities I through  IV,  if  there  is=20
     anything left, you can buy something,  pay off a debt,  or save and=20
     invest.  EVERYTHING ELSE is a fifth priority item.
       You have to take care of yourself first.   Creditors have to wait=20
     in line and get theirs after you are at least "alive".
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 78
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       If you have been under financial stress and pressure for a while,=20
     and  you  probably  have if you want out,  then you will  know  how=20
     annoying credit collectors can be.   But you may also have realized=20
     by now that you've got them,  they haven't "got"  you!  Without you=20
     they are out the money.   With you,  they at least have a chance to=20
     get their money back some day!
       That  is  why the reality is that you must take care of  yourself=20
     first.   And you know what?   Just about every creditor understands=20
     and  supports this point of view.   Creditors know that you must do=20
     well or THEY don't get  paid.  You are the one in charge.
       Once  we  had  the spending at least under a  little  control  we=20
     started to "take stock".  Here's how we did it.
       An  "essential"  is the CASH NET WORTH LIST.   It is an  absolute=20
     must.  All businesses use one.  In a business it's called a balance=20
       A sample CASH NET WORTH LIST is shown below:
                         CASH NET WORTH LIST
                         as of December 19XX
         UNSECURED DEBTS              OWED      % OF TOTAL
          Capital Loans           ($14,841.14)     29%
          Family Loans            ($11,105.00)     22%
          Major Card#1             ($6,240.68)     12%
          Midwest Loan Co.         ($3,622.00)      7%
          Memorial Hospital        ($3,348.80)      7%
          Bank Overdraft Loan      ($2,630.66)      5%
          Unpaid Office Rent       ($2,573.53)      5%
          First S&L #550           ($2,174.22)      4%
          Major Card#2             ($1,334.39)      3%
          Telco                      ($572.03)      1%
          Credit Collections Inc.    ($549.17)      1%
          Canceled Credit Card       ($448.05)      1%
          Office Supply Store        ($382.12)      1%
          Personal Loan#1            ($300.00)      1%
          Pediatrics Inc.            ($288.20)      1%
          Personal Loan#2            ($233.23)      -
         TOTAL UNSECURED DEBTS    ($50,643.22)     100%
          Cash on Hand                  $9.08
          His Checking Account         $26.27
          Her Checking Account         $44.41
          Property Account            $226.78
         TOTAL OF CASH ACCOUNTS       $307.03
         CASH NET WORTH           ($50,336.19)
       This was our actual situation when we started to escape from debt=20
     as a way of life in 1990.
       We  also  discovered that,  in spite of all the mumbo-jumbo  from=20
     high  priced  financial "experts," the truth is there are only  two=20
     significant measures of financial success or lack thereof.  Namely,=20
     CASH NET WORTH (as above) and CASH NET INCOME.
       Let's keep this simple,  OK?   The material you are about to read=20
     is  simple,  but  most people do not have the advantage of  hearing=20
     about  it  or understanding it.   We are about to share with you  a=20
     powerful  framework  for  evaluating  your financial situation  the=20
     way it is, "for real".
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 79
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

       You  can  establish  your situation in the financial  game  quite=20
     easily  by  using  two lines,  one vertical to represent  CASH  NET=20
     WORTH,  and  a  horizontal  line that crosses it  called  CASH  NET=20
                          FINANCIAL QUADRANTS
                            CASH NET WORTH
                                You Own
                     II IMPENDING  | I SUCCEEDING
                        FAILURE    |
                CASH               |                CASH
                NET(-) <-----------0------------> (+)NET
                INCOME             |              INCOME
                     IV FAILING    | III IMPENDING
                                   |     SUCCESS
                                You Owe
                             CASH NET WORTH
       We  found  we could be in only one of the four Quadrants  at  any=20
     particular point in time.
       These Quadrants are significant since we found out that there are=20
     specific "rules"  we had to follow depending upon which QUADRANT we=20
     were  in.   We  added these rules into our escape plan as we  found=20
     them  out  during  the  ten  years of  struggle  to  break  out  to=20
       The second measure of financial success turns out to be:
       Let's  start  by using a definition for CASH NET  INCOME.   We'll=20
     define  it  as  the  cash left over at the end of  the  month  when=20
     EVERYTHING has been paid for, including your taxes.
       By that definition you can see that most people have none.  It is=20
     a  sad-but-true  fact that the majority of people spend  everything=20
     they  make  every month,  and then commit to spend what they  won't=20
     have until next month!
       We  discovered  that the simple method was to enter income  items=20
     above, and outgo items below, using a one-side of one sheet format. =
     To feed the monthly CASH NET INCOME sheet we used a DAILY RECORD to=20
     write  down our cash expenses as they occurred.   At first it was a=20
     bother, but we found some easy shortcuts that made it a cinch.
       When you buy something, and cash changes hands,  jot a note under=20
     the day's date showing the item purchased and the amount.
       As we brought these two controls into "working" shape we got into=20
     control  of both the vertical and horizontal lines of the FINANCIAL=20
       In  a sense,  there is really no difference between a bank  asset=20
     account (such as a checking or a savings account) and a debt.  They=20
     are both just accounts.  One you own.  The other you owe.=20
       A savings account is an asset, something you own.  A bank loan is=20
     just  a negative or minus "savings account."   You owe rather  than=20
     own the amount.
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 80
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                          FINANCIAL QUADRANTS
                                We Own
                       COASTING   |   FREEDOM
                          II      |      I
                Spend <-----------0------------> Make
                More              |              More
                          IV      |     III
                        SLAVERY   |    HOPE
                                We Owe
       In  the  ten years between 1982 and 1992 we experienced  a  great=20
     deal of real trauma.  We tried it all:   MULTILEVEL MARKETING (Four=20
     different  times!),  becoming employees (and just to get hit by the=20
     great  layoffs  of  the early 90's),  and so  on.   Some  of  those=20
     experiences  are  almost  too painful to remember.   None  of  them=20
     enabled us to really "build" anything.
       It  just seemed like every time we got close to recovery we  were=20
     just worse off to end up with.
       What  we  had to discover the "hard way"  was the fact  that  all=20
     these "good ideas"  about making money don't count unless you first=20
     learn the "rules."  We discovered that our beloved United States is=20
     governed in a manner so as to enslave all of us in debt,  and that,=20
     without  these QUADRANT RULES it doesn't matter how much you  make,=20
     you can't get free.
       To  make  a  long story short,  we escaped from that  nasty  debt=20
     situation  shown  above  in our CASH NET WORTH list  in  about  two=20
     years.   We are now building strength using the same ideas that you=20
     have just been shown, and our "rules."
       Do you know that children's song "Row, row, row your boat, gently=20
     down the stream.  Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a=20
     dream."?  There is a lot of wisdom in that tune.
       Our lives are our dreams.   Our lives work best when we row,  and=20
     to make it easy, let's go "down the stream" - not against it!
       What  we are today is the accumulation of all the little  choices=20
     we  have made thus far.   Because every choice and action moves you=20
     in a particular direction.
       And  what you will be tomorrow will be the sum total of where you=20
     are today plus all the little choices and actions you make now.
       And there are two oars for our boat.   One is KNOWLEDGE,  and the=20
     other is DOING.
       If you have Knowledge in your little boat but no "Doing,"  you go=20
     around  in a circle,  never getting anywhere because you are rowing=20
     with just one oar.
       The same thing happens if you have all Doing and no Knowledge. To=20
     make real progress you need both oars in the water.=20
       Our  feeling is that you will only ever experience the peace  and=20
     security you want if you own your own efforts.
       You can buy stock in your employer's company,  but unless you are=20
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 81
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     rich  to begin with,  your ownership will be so small there will be=20
     no  control.   If somebody "up there" does something  stupid,  your=20
     investment will suffer.
       If  you  have  been  kicking around for very long  you  may  have=20
     noticed  that  all  the  rules in our country  tend  to  favor  the=20
     "owner."  They are all "golden rules" that say "those with the gold=20
     make the rules".
       This  material  was  extracted from the 40 page manual  and  plan=20
     called  "SUCCESS  WITH  MONEY PLAN"  that Sue and I wrote  to  help=20
     others who want "American-Style" freedom, for the sad truth is that=20
     most of us have had our freedom removed in the past 70 years or so.
       There  are  a  few trite expressions we all use and  agree  with.=20
     "America  is  the greatest country on earth".  "We  enjoy  freedom,=20
     America  has real Freedom".     But have you really looked at  your=20
     "Freedom?" =20
       You hold a job. If you complain,  "rock the boat,"  "make waves,"=20
     and  sometimes  even  if you just "make suggestions"  you  can  get=20
     fired.  You're fine until you begin to talk about "right and wrong"=20
     - then you're gone!  Do this at two or more "jobs"  and you'll have=20
     trouble  finding  work.   They take your Social Security Number  so=20
     they  can  extract the tax money even before you get to  handle  it=20
     yourself.   And  yet you're in a "voluntary"  tax  system.   Right! =
     They  tell you when to come to work,  when to leave work,  and they=20
     give you a couple of weeks "vacation."  That's your "Freedom."  All=20
     the  while  you  are  paid enough  to  pay  your  mortgage,  taxes,=20
     utilities, and eat, and maybe have a couple of hundred left over to=20
     "play" (if you are lucky!)!   You don't complain,  either,  because =
     you need to "pay the bills".
       All  of the above is the real threat to the right to free speech.=20
     Many  good  people  hold their tongues because they are  afraid  to=20
     speak with their hearts, or make demands for change.
       The  only  way you are ever going to be free is to free  yourself=20
     from  debt of all kinds so you can begin to operate at a pace,  and=20
     in a direction,  that is consistent with  your own values and sense=20
     for  "life."   That is what our plan is all about.   I am convinced=20
     that it is the ONLY way "out" (I think Sue and I may have tried all=20
     the  other  ways!).   All those money-making programs are fine  and=20
     well,  but  what good does the money do for you when you are unable=20
     to keep and use it in your own way?
       When  we  started we were over $50,000 in debt and with no  jobs.=20
     We'd still be buried without our plan.
       It's OK to "own" what you do and report to your values instead of=20
     to the bankers and the clock...  Trade in your clock for a compass,=20
     and follow the FOUR QUADRANTS to real success. =20
       And...     Good Luck!!!=20
                          :-) Rick + &:-) Sue....
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 82
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     TO:    Rick & Sue Harvey
            Post Office Box 748
            Lake Forest, Illinois  60045
     FROM:  __________________________________ (Name)
            __________________________________ (Address)
            __________________________________ (City/State/Zip)
            __________________________________ (Phone - Optional)
     SUBJ:  SUCCESS WITH MONEY PLAN - Mission Command & Control
            Please send me the complete printed report of your
            SUCCESS WITH MONEY PLAN (The Report).=20
            [  ] I am a veteran.      Amount for The Report: $15
            [  ] I am not a veteran.  Amount for The Report: $25
            I understand that there is a money-back guarantee and
            that if I am not happy with The Report I may return it=20
            for a full refund within ninety (90) days.
            You understand that if I have any problems in either=20
            timely receiving The Report or a requested refund I=20
            will contact NamVet's Managing Editor for further=20
            ____________________________ Amount Enclosed       =20
            ____________________________ Signature       __________ Date

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 83
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                            Lessons from Geese
                   Submitted by: Jose N. Proenza Sanfiel
                        VETLink #1 BBS - Tampa, FL
                              (813) 249-8323
     [Joe  Note:   Jose  has often faxed me a copy of the  below  text. =20
     Days  have  gone by where I've seen so many areas where  we,  too,=20
     could  learn  a  very valuable lesson from nature.   Many  of  our=20
     veteran  groups,  too,  will  gain  immensely from  this  article. =20
     Thanks Jose!]
     Editor's Note:  "Lessons from Geese" was transcribed from a speech=20
     given  by  Angeles Arrien at the 1991  Organizational  Development=20
     Network and was based on the work of Milton Olson.   It circulated=20
     to Outward Bound staff throughout the United States.   We share it=20
     here hoping that we can all learn these lessons.
     FACT 1:  As each goose flaps its wings it creates an "uplift"  for
          the  birds that follow.   By flying in a "V"  formation,  the=20
          whole  flock adds 71%  greater flying range than if each bird=20
          flew alone.
     LESSON:  People   who  share  a  common  direction  and  sense  of=20
          community  can  get where they are going quicker  and  easier=20
          because they are travelling on the thrust of one another.
     FACT 2:  When  a goose falls out of formation,  it suddenly  feels
          the  drag and resistance of flying alone.   It quickly  moves=20
          back into formation to take advantage of the lifting power of=20
          the bird immediately in front of it.
     LESSON:  If  we have as much sense as a goose we stay in formation=20
          with  those  headed where we want to go.   We are willing  to=20
          accept their help and give our help to others.
     FACT 3:  When  the  lead  goose tires,  it rotates back  into  the
          formation and another goose flies to the point position.
     LESSON:  It  pays  to take turns doing the hard tasks and  sharing=20
          leadership.   As  with  geese,  people are interdependent  on=20
          other's  skills,  capabilities  and  unique  arrangements  of=20
          gifts, talents or resources.
     FACT 4:  The  geese flying in formation honk to encourage those up
          front to keep up their speed.
     LESSON:  We  need  to make sure our honking  is  encouraging.   In=20
          groups  where there is encouragement,  the production is much=20
          greater.   The  power of encouragement (to stand by one's own=20
          heart  or  core  values and encourage the heart and  core  of=20
          others) is the quality of honking we seek.
     FACT 5:  When a goose gets sick, wounded, or shot down,  two geese
          drop  out of formation and follow it down to help and protect=20
          it.  They stay with it until it dies or is able to fly again. =20
          Then  they launch out with another formation or catch up with=20
          the flock.
     LESSON:  If we have as much sense as geese,  we will stand by each=20
          other in difficult times as well as when we are strong.
     Distributed by: Western Shoshone Defense Project
                     General Delivery=20
                     Crescent Valley, NV  89821
                     Newe Sogobia =20
                     (702) 468-0230=20
                     (702) 468-0237 Fax

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 84
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                                 Sister Vets

                  Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
                              "Sister Search"
     The  Vietnam  Women's  Memorial Project's  (VWMP) "SISTER  SEARCH" =20
     is   a  program   designed  to locate the  military  and  civilian =20
     women  who served their country during the Vietnam War.
     The  goals of "SISTER SEARCH"  are to facilitate hope and  healing=20
     among women veterans; to provide a network for them; and to assist=20
     research efforts on women who served during the Vietnam War.   All=20
     women  veterans in the "SISTER SEARCH"  database will periodically=20
     receive information on the Project's progress.
     Vietnam   era  women  veterans  are  asked  to  provide  as   much=20
     information   as they feel comfortable sharing.    "Sister Search"=20
     is  NOT  a locator service,   should an inquiry be made as to  the=20
     whereabouts of a person included in the "SISTER SEARCH"  database,=20
     the VWMP will pass the inquiry along in writing to the individual,=20
     allowing her to decide whether she would like to respond.   If the=20
     individual  is deceased,  the inquiry will be sent to the  closest=20
     family member identified by the VWMP.
     The  VWMP  dedicated  the  Vietnam  Women's  Memorial,  the  first=20
     memorial  in  the nation's capital to honor  women's  service,  on=20
     November  11,   1993.    The  VWMP  is  a  non-profit,   volunteer=20
     organization.   Its  primary purposes to educate the public  about=20
     the  women  who  served during the Vietnam era and to  locate  and=20
     provide a network for these women continue.
     For more information, contact:
                              "SISTER SEARCH"
                              Vietnam Women's Memorial Project
                              2001 'S' Street NW
                              Suite #302
                              Washington DC  20009
                              Fax 202/986-3636

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 85
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                  Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
            2001 S Street NW - Suite 302 - Washington DC 20009
                      202/328-7253  FAX: 202/986-3636
                               SISTER SEARCH
     Name:________________________Vietnam Era Name: ___________________
                                  (If different)
     Address:_____________________________________ Work #: ____/_______
     City:________________ State: __ Zip:________  Home #:
     Branch of Service or
     Civilian Organization: ___________________________________________
                           In-Country (Vietnam)
     Assignment #1: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     Assignment #2: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     Assignment #3: ___________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
                          Vietnam Era (1959-1975)
     Assignment: ______________________________________________________
     Start Date: ___________________________ End Date: ________________
     The  Project  receives inquires from the press and researchers  in=20
     search  of  Vietnam  era women veterans who are willing  to  share=20
     their experiences.Your participation as a press/research/education=20
     contact is strictly optional.
     I  authorize  the Vietnam Women's Memorial Project to  release  my=20
     name  to individuals or organizations who are seeking  information=20
     on  Vietnam era women veterans for press inquiries,  research  or=20
     educational activities.
     Signature ________________________________________ Date __________
     I  authorize  the Vietnam Women's Memorial Project to  release  my=20
     name  to the National Associate Volunteer,  Regional and/or  State=20
     Coordinator in my area.
     FOR OFFICE USE     | Signature ___________________ Date __________
     DATE RECEIVED:     |
                        |                                             =20
     TRANSFER:          |
                        | Please  list  the names and addresses of  any=20
     ENTER:             | other  Vietnam era women veterans you know on=20
                        | the back of this form.
     COMMENTS:          |
     -------------------| Thank you for participating in SISTER SEARCH

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 86
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                                    O  YOU can help support the
      O                            O  VIETNAM WOMEN'S MEMORIAL PROJECT
       O                          O  with a direct donation (Federal
        O      A legacy of       O  employees: VWMP's CFC #0487) or by
         O  Healing and Hope    O  purchasing any of the products
          O                    O  listed on this page.
           O                  O
            O                O         Tell 'em NAMVET sent ya!
             O __________   O
              O          ) O    Commemorative Dedication Program    5.00
             /(O)       / O\    #113 Dedication Poster/Print       10.00
            /          / O  \   #114 Paperweight w/Memorial Design 10.00
           / VIETNAM  /      \  #115 Lapel Pin w/Memorial Design    5.00
          /  WOMEN'S /HONORING\ #116 Cassette, Official Dedication Song
         / MEMORIAL /\   THE   \   'TIL THE WHITE DOVE FLIES ALONE  5.00
        /  PROJECT /  \ WOMEN   \  #111 White Visor w/Project Name on it
       /          /    \ WHO     \   One size fits all  100% poly   8.00
      /          /      \ SERVED / #112 Poplin Hat in Tan or White with
     (__________/        \      /    Brown imprint 1-Size Fits All 10.00
                          \    /  #105 USA-Minted VWMP Bronze Coin 10.00
                           \  /  #106 VWMP Silver Coin             10.00
                            \/    (105/106 1-troy oz; silver $ may vary)
                     #117 Book: VISIONS OF WAR, DREAMS OF PEACE    10.00
     #110 Generous sz. cotton Canvas Tote Natural w/dk grn embdry  25.00
     #118 Nat color 100% cot T-shirt w/"dog tag" design in dk grn  15.00
     #109 Front/Back views of Memorial on 100% cotton T-shirt in
                                Natural color.   Sizes M,L,XL,XXL  15.00
     #102 Staff Shirt> Forest gn w/sqd-off btm & banded sleeve in
       50/50 w/cm color Project Name on left chest Sizes S,M,L,XL  30.00
     #103 ShtSl Beefy-T Forest Gn w/Project name in white raised
       print on the left chest                 Sizes S,M,L,XL,XXL  17.00
     #120  Same as above in Natural w/grn imprint                  15.00
     #104 LgSl 100% cot T-shirt in Forest grn w/Project name in
       white raised print on the left chest.       Sizes S,M,L,XL  22.00
     #107 9oz Hvywt Swtshrt fm Lee Co in natural color w/Project name
       embrdrd lft chest in dk grn.  Generous Sizing     S,M,L,XL  45.00
     #108 Hvywt 100% cot sweater Smooth-stitched yoke  Bdy/slvs in rich
       nubby texture knit. Project Name left chest dk gn S,M,L,XL  75.00
     Shipping & Handling:    up to $30 - $3.50     $31 to $70 - $4.50
                           $71 to $100 - $5.50   $101 to $200 - $6.50
     Sold to  __________________________________________________________
     Address  __________________________________________________________
     Phone    __________________________________________________________
     Prod  Quantity  Size  Description             Per Unit       Total
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     ____  _______   ____  ____________________    _______      _______
     Sub-Total ______  Donation _____  Shipping ______     Total_______
     Please make checks or money order out to:
       Vietnam Women's Memorial Project, Inc.
       2001 S St., NW Suite 302  Washington, DC  20009

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 87
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                         IVVEC Phonebook/Information

                             IVVEC "Phonebook"
                          Submitted by Joyce Flory
                Desert Dolphin/VETLink #13 - Las Cruces, NM
                               (505) 523-2811
       If any of the following information is inaccurate or=20
     incomplete, please contact me through the VIETNAM_VETS Echo or=20
     NetMail at 1:305/105 (FidoNet), 19:300/100, or 19:1/52 (VETNet).=20
       I would, also, like to know if any of these boards are Pay=20
     BBS's (pay per hour) or Subscriber BBS's (for extended time, etc.=20
     you must pay a fee).  I feel you vets have paid enough without=20
     having to pay for vet information, access to the NAM_VET echo, or=20
     to download the NAM_VET newsletter AND have a right to know which=20
     boards charge.=20
       Though I regularly check the listings against the Nodelist to=20
     make sure they have the correct phone number(s), I have no way of=20
     knowing (short of calling them all - grin) *if* they carry the=20
     echo or not.  Remember, this list is only as good as my=20
     information.  Your help and information would be greatly=20
                                                     Thank you;
                                                     Joyce (K.O.T.L.)
     Updated 08-05-94
     CN Canoe, B.C.     Lyman Hills Fortress        604-832-7183
     CN Brantford, Ont. In-Side In-Fo BBS           519-756-4189-NL
     CN Etobicoke, Ont. CRS Online                  416-213-6037
     CN Etobicoke, Ont. SomethingELSE TBBS          416-236-3125
     CN Ottawa, Ont.    Power House BBS             613-744-5894
     CN Thunder Bay, Ont.  Online Now               807-345-7248
     CN Thunder Bay, Ont.  Online Now               807-345-1531
     CN Regina, Sask.   Vet's Perspective BBS/      306-789-9909-NL !
                        VETLink #57
     AL Decatur         Byte Swap                   205-355-2983
     AL Gardendale      VETLink #48                 205-631-4513-NL !*
     AL Millbrook       King James Bible            205-285-5948
     AL Mobile          Di's Online Cafe            205-661-8945
     AL Montgomery      C.C.S. OnLine               205-281-1331
     AL Pleasant Grove  Family Smorgas-Board        205-744-0943-NL !
                        (VETLink #26)=20
     AK Fairbanks       Sodalitas                   907-451-6499-NL !
     AR Benton          The Fishin' Hole            501-794-4072
     AR Fairfield Bay   Fairfield Bay/Vets BBS      501-884-6277
                        (VETLink #50)
     AR Magnolia-DOWN   The Data Shop (VETLink #23) 501-234-5064-NL !
     AR Strickler       Gensoft                     501-761-9600
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 88
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     AZ Fountain Valley The Mall (VETLink #39)      602-837-7808-NL !
     AZ Mesa            The Sleep Robber BBS        602-985-1088
     AZ Phoenix         AzCLU BBS                   602-650-1180
       Mon. thru Fri. - 6pm to 8am; Weekends - 6pm Fri. to 8am Mon.
     AZ Phoenix         The GhostRider BBS          602-439-2226
     AZ Phoenix         The Messenger               602-547-9524
     AZ Phoenix         Nat'l Congress For Men BBS  602-840-4752
     AZ Phoenix         Nighthawk BBS               602-582-1127-PB*
     AZ Sierra Vista    United We Stand, America    602-459-0013
     CA Anaheim         CA Self-Help Library        714-952-2110
     CA Antioch         Cheers                      510-706-0904
     CA Azusa           Azusa Pacific BBS           818-969-9170
     CA Castro Valley   Combat Arms BBS             510-537-1777
     CA Claremont       Interamnia BBS              909-624-2246
     CA Clovis          Clovis-Net BBS              209-292-3530
     CA Davis           Dynasoft Node               916-753-8788
     CA El Segundo      Spider's Web                310-416-9901
     CA Glendora        Library BBS                 818-914-0221
     CA Hayward         G A D M                     510-886-1621
     CA Los Angeles     The Empty Bed Pan           310-478-0451
     CA Los Angeles     Long_Island RB              310-370-4113
     CA Los Angeles     SoCalNet EC                 818-969-9542
     CA Mission Viejo   The Solar System            714-707-4625
     CA Mission Viejo   The Solar System            714-837-9677
     CA Nipomo          Chthonic BBS                805-343-6018=20
     CA Novato          McBlob's BBS                415-382-9410
     CA Novato          Mover Mouse BBS             415-898-2644
     CA Oakland         LZ/Nightline (VETLink #22)  510-273-7830-NL !=20
     CA Oakland         LZ/Nightline (VETLink #22)  510-273-7831-NL !
     CA Ontario         The Diamond Bar BBS         909-947-7478
     CA Ontario         The Diamond Bar BBS         909-923-1031
     CA Orange          Ol' Codger's BBS            714-639-1139
     CA Petaluma-DOWN   VETLink #28                 707-763-8287-NL !
     CA Petaluma        Starbase 515                707-769-1624
     CA Poway           SGT ROCK's BBS              619-748-5406
     CA Riverside       Solid Rock BBS              909-785-9176
     CA Sacramento      Humanx Commonwealth BBS     916-737-1844
     CA Sacramento      Now and Zen Opus            916-962-1952
     CA Sacramento      Frogstar                    916-739-8386
     CA Sacramento      Seanachie                   916-481-3552
     CA Sacramento      Siren                       916-482-9976
     CA Sacramento      Siren                       916-486-2963
     CA San Diego       Analog Man/VETLink #53      619-4497-0113-NL !
     CA San Diego       Aral's Castle               619-469-5581
     CA San Diego       FarOut BBS                  619-581-9049
     CA San Diego       Open Forum                  619-284-2924
     CA San Diego       Rendezvous BBS              619-689-2817
     CA San Diego       Rendezvous BBS              619-692-0563
     CA San Francisco   PC GFX Exchange             415-337-5416
     CA San Jose        24 Hours-A-Day BBS          408-448-1126
     CA San Mateo       Skeptic's Board             415-572-0359
     CA Santa Rosa      Sonoma Online               707-545-0785
     CA Sausalito       Marin County Net            415-331-6241
     CA Vallejo         Power Station               707-552-0659
     CA Vallejo         Power Station               707-552-0462
     CA West Covina     R/C Model Plane             818-919-2879
     CA Yucaipa         The Zoo/VETLink #33         909-797-1835-NL !
     CO Aurora          Dustoff                     303-343-8810
     CO Aurora          The Silver Hammer           303-367-9701
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 89
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     CO Boulder         Pinecliffe HST DS           303-642-0703
     CO Colorado Sprgs  Earth Station Alpha         719-636-8979
     CO Colorado Sprgs  Electric Locksmith          719-390-9249
     CO Denver          HotelNet                    303-296-1300
     CO Fort Carson     Fort Carson BBS             719-526-3636
     CO Golden          LES-COM-net                 303-526-2047
     CO Littleton       InterConnect                303-797-0296
     CT Branford        Alice's Restaurant          203-488-1115
     CT Branford        Fernwood  OS 2 Line 2       203-481-7934
     CT Danbury         Treasure Island             203-791-8532-NL
     CT Granby          Blackjack BBS               203-653-6646
     CT Killingly       The  Mad - VETLink #11      203-779-3173-NL !
     CT Killingworth    The Hub                     203-663-1147
     CT Plantsville     The Pig Pen                 203-628-9346
     CT Plantsville     The Pig Pen                 203-620-0562
     CT Southington     DownStairs SC EchoHub       203-621-1930
     CT Wallingford     Prime Connection            203-265-9582
     CT Wallingford     Prime Connection            203-269-2843
     CT Wallingford     Vampire Connection          203-269-8313
     CT Wallingford     Wyld Stallyns               203-265-3589
     CT West Haven      Ascii Tipi (VETLink #15)    203-934-9852-NL !
     CT Willimatic      Starbase 9/VETLink #51      203-423-6799-NL !
     CT Yalesville      Emerogronican BBS           203-949-0189
     DE Dover           DELFIRE BBS                 302-739-6757
     DE Georgetown      UnderGround BBS             302-855-0421
     DE New Castle      Hackers BBS                 302-322-8215
     FL Clarcona        West Orange BBS             407-293-2724
     FL Clearwater      Future Com                  813-796-8259
     FL Cocoa           Mercenary Motel             407-639-0282-NL !
                        (VETLink #60)
     FL Davis           The Southern Cross BBS      305-424-0666
     FL Deland          Bill's Bandwagon            904-738-3858
     FL Jacksonville    Guiding Light (VETLink #32) 904-744-9991-NL !
     FL Jacksonville    Maranatha (VETLink #49)     904-353-3807-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL Jacksonville    Maranatha (VETLink #49)     904-353-3558-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL Keystone Hts.   The Lion's Den              904-473-4330
     FL Kissimmee       Micro-Imaging BBS           407-847-5499
     FL Kissimmee       The Program Exchange        407-870-2735
     FL Mary Esther     The Bear's Den              904-581-2697
     FL Melbourne       Flamingo BBS                407-253-0782
     FL Melbourne       REACT BBS                   407-255-9948
     FL Merritt Island  Electric Island BBS         407-454-3779
     FL Navarre         Terrapin Station            904-939-8027
     FL New Prot Richie Inner Sanctum               813-848-6055
     FL Orlando         Digital Connection          407-896-0494
     FL Orlando         Gourmet Delight             407-649-4136
     FL Orlando         Infinite Space Online       407-658-4578
     FL Orlando         Modem to Modem BBS          407-282-0433
     FL Orlando         Modem to Modem BBS          407-382-7331
     FL Orlando         UP-EAST BBS                 407-273-7849
     FL Panama City     Double Springs BBS          904-784-6336-NL !
     FL Pembroke Pines  Bitsy's Place (VETLink #17) 305-432-8210-NL !
     FL Pensacola       TITAN Services Inc.         904-479-2448
     FL Pensacola       TITAN Services Inc.         904-476-1270
     FL Rockledge       Energy Line 1               407-690-0032
     FL St. Petersburg  Doc's Place!                813-822-4637
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 90
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     FL St. Petersburg  Florida Mail Hub            813-321-0734
     FL St. Petersburg  1 Computers   (VETLink #43) 813-527-1556-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL St. Petersburg  1 Computers   (VETLink #43) 813-521-3149-NL !
      ^^ DOWN ^^
     FL St. Petersburg  Twilight BBS                813-323-6023
     FL Sarasota        The Four Winds BBS          813-955-7862
     FL Sebring         ANCESTRY TBBS               813-471-0552
     FL Tampa           The GIFfer                  813-969-1089
     FL Tampa           The Godfather BBS           813-286-7084
     FL Tampa           T.A.B.B.                    813-961-6242
     FL Tampa           VETLink #1                  813-249-8323-NL !
     FL Titusville      The Sport of Kings          407-383-7785
     FL Venice          Venice Recovery             813-492-9592
     GA Athens-DOWN     Classic City (VETLink #35)  706-548-0726-NL !
     GA Augusta         Public's Domain BBS         706-860-5070
     GA Hephzibah       Kings Tavern                706-592-1458
       *** 9pm-7am ONLY ***
     GA Macon           ZAP!                        912-788-6811
     GA Macon           ZAP!                        912-788-5258
     GA Savannah        E-Pages BBS (VETLink #61)   912-927-4857-NL !
     GA Valdosta        Hot South BBS (VETLink #29) 912-242-0496-NL !
     HI Honolulu        Coconuts BBS                808-845-7054
     HI Honolulu        Nookies In the Crater       808-833-6862
     HI Honolulu        Nookies In the Crater2      808-833-0259
     HI Kaneohe         This OLD PC BBS             808-239-8824
     IA Cedar Rapids    Lighthouse BBS              319-366-1985
     IA Des Moines      FOG LINE BBS                515-964-7937
     IA Des Moines      Da Bear's Cave              515-288-3984
     IA Sioux City      Wolf's Den QuickBBS         712-276-4832
     IA Sioux City      Wolf's Den QuickBBS         712-252-4670
     ID Boise           Horizon BBS I               208-375-4073
     IL Belleville      Master's Place              618-234-4043
     IL Mascoutah       Vietnam Vet's BBS           618-566-7832
     IN Ft. Wayne       Midnight Escape             219-456-4127
     IN Ft. Wayne       Semper Fi                   219-424-4292-NL
     IN Ft. Wayne       The Starship                219-485-8665
     IN Hamilton        Hilltop BBS                 219-488-3812
     IN Indianapolis    Joe's Bar & Grill           317-849-0598
     IN Indianapolis    Joe's Bar & Grill           317-849-0561
     IN South Bend      Squawk Box/VETLink #27      219-273-2291-NL !
     IN South Bend      Squawk Box/VETLink #27      219-273-2094-NL !
     KY Independence    The ZOO                     606-586-7508
     KS Bucyrus         Horse and Hound             913-897-5039
     KS Lenexa          Diamond Lil's Saloon        913-894-4704
     KS Overland Park   Laughinstock BBS            913-648-1412
     KS Shawnee Mission Computer Specialties        913-642-8983
     KS Stilwell        COLOSSUS II Systems         913-681-1255
     KS Stilwell        COLOSSUS II Systems         913-897-6667
     LA Baker           The Chatter Box             504-775-7825
     LA Downsville      Genesis One BBS             318-982-7668
     LA New Orleans     N O P C Club                504-486-7249
     LA Pineville       Louisiana Veterans BBS      318-449-1012-NL !
                        (VETLink #16)        =20
     LA Sun             WSTPC                       504-886-2157
     MA Adams           VETLink #20                 413-743-7378-NL !
     MA Amherst         Pioneer Valley PCUG1        413-256-1037
     MA Andover         Aeolus BBS                  508-474-0328
     MA Dalton          Field St. BBS (E-N *)       413-684-1938-NL
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 91
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     MA Lawrence        Falcon's Nest/VETLink #47   508-686-7706-NL !
     MA Lynn            Cyberdyne Systems           617-595-6151
     MA Lynn            Freedom's Choice:CBCS/      617-593-2605-NL !
                        VETLink #18=20
     MA Methuen         Midnight Shift! BBS         508-688-5209
     MA Methuen         The Studio                  508-794-4637
     MA Peabody         LZ Memories                 508-977-9756-NL !
     MA Pittsfield      Berkshire Estates           413-499-1327-NL !
                        (VETLink #37)
     MA Springfield     The Spa                     413-532-1403
     MA Springfield     The Spa                     413-536-4365
     MA Turners Falls   RoboBOARD (Technique BBS)   413-774-7425
     MD Arnold          Grimace BBS                 410-544-1297
     MD Baltimore       Jim's Hooch (VETLink #19)   410-866-8613-NL !
     MD Gaithersburg    InterMission                301-212-9410
     MD Gaithersburg    InterMission                301-417-6952
     MD Reisterstown    Liberty Hall                410-833-8933
     MD Shady Side-DOWN VETLink #4                  301-261-5644-NL
     MD Westminster     The Gordian Knot            410-876-3337
     MD Wheaton         PainFrame                   301-649-3906
     ME Bangor          The Lobster Buoy            207-945-9346
     ME Freeport        Acorn BBS                   207-865-2295
     ME Freeport        Acorn BBS                   207-865-3004
     ME Kennebunkport   Harbour Lights              207-967-3719
     ME Mexico          MaineVets (VETLink #46)     207-364-7338-NL !
                  TEMP: 207-364-3034 10:00 pm - 6:30 am
     ME Springvale      The Hobbit Hole BBS         207-490-0112
     MI Charlotte       MicroNet                    517-543-0228
     MI Dearborn        Bruce's Place               313-562-0051-NL !
     MI Cooper Township Kalamazoo Review            616-349-5882-NL !
     MI Freeland        Wolverine                   517-695-9964
     MI Freeport        Pet_Finders_System          616-765-3372
     MI Jackson         BG's Bar & Grill            517-783-4005
     MI Kalamazoo       The Graphics Shop - Node 1  616-373-3984
     MI Lincoln Park    Dante's Inferno             313-386-1905-NL !
                        (VETLink #24)=20
     MI Midland         Wild Child                  517-631-9025
     MI Redford         BILLs BBS                   313-535-6306
     MI Redford Twp.    V.o.i.c.e. Bbs              313-532-8410
     MI Richland        Freq Shop                   616-342-0714
     MI Taylor          The Olympic 1               313-946-4208
     MI Taylor          The Olympic 2               313-946-5931
     MI Taylor          Prime Time BBS              313-291-0128
     MI Woodhaven       The Outer Limits I          313-692-4174
     MN Arden Hills     The City Lights             612-639-8970
     MN Robbinsdale     U.S. Veterans BBS (E-N)     612-522-2026-NL,SB
     MN Rosemount       Data Gallery BBS            612-431-1373
     MO Boliver         Wolfhound BBS               417-326-3361
     MO Gladstone       Sound Advice BBS            816-436-7326
     MO Gladstone       Sound Advice BBS            816-436-4516
     MO House Springs   Computers Plus              314-349-9144
     MO House Springs   Computers Plus              314-942-5932
     MO Joplin          Inside OK! BBS              417-624-0000
     MO Joplin          Inside OK! BBS              417-624-7300
     MO Liberty         Andy's Attic BBS            816-792-4890
     MO Ozark           The Silver Thorn            417-581-4164
     MO Springfield     CoConut Palms Hotel         417-887-6048
     MO Springfield     Hotel Springfield MO.       417-887-8574
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 92
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     MO Springfield     Wittenburg Door             417-862-9759
     MS Southhaven      Picture This                601-342-6071
     MS Vicksburg       Southern Belle              601-634-1625
     MT Helena          WestNet BBS                 406-458-9379
     NC Burlington      NightHawk                   910-228-7002
     NC Burlington      The Grunt's R&R Center/     910-227-1113-NL !
                        VETLink #45
     NC Charlotte       Carolina Forum              704-563-5857
     NC Charlotte       Carolina Forum              704-568-1663
     NC Charlotte       The Christian Star          704-553-7673
     NC Charlotte       The Mounties BBS            704-393-7338
     NC Charlotte       Transporter Room            704-567-9513
     NC Fayetteville    Virtigo                     910-822-2677
     NC Hendersonville  Hall of Records             704-692-0300
     NC Raleigh         InfoSys                     919-851-8460
     NC Raleigh         Shalom III                  919-851-3858
     NC Shelby          Heilhiem Electronics        704-484-0935-NL !
                     Charlie Company/(VETLink #41)  704-480-7463-2400=20
     NC Spring-Lake     Federal Post                919-436-2055
     NC Waynesville     High Tech Center BBS        704-452-3357
     NC Wilmington      Cape Fear Ratite RA         910-799-9471-NL !
                        (VETLink #55)
     NE Lincoln         Flite-Line BBS              402-421-9610
     NH Derry           Our BBS                     603-432-5287
     NH Hooksett-DOWN   Checkmate BBS (VETLink #8)  603-485-5945-NL !
     NH Manchester      Computer Solutions          603-641-2017
     NH Merrimack       Outer Limits/VETLink #9     603-424-4915-NL !
     NJ Aberdeen        Cheapo Studios BBS          908-566-7052
     NJ Cherry Hill     Space Station II            609-665-0969
     NJ Lyndhurst       The BillBoard BBS           201-935-1104
     NJ Lyndhurst       Starship                    201-935-1485
     NJ Lyndhurst       Starship ][                 201-935-7036
     NJ Madison         Strand BBS                  201-822-3658
     NJ Marlton         Crystal City                609-983-9521
     NJ Medford         Pics OnLine                 609-753-2540
     NJ Montvale        Over the Edge BBS           201-573-0719
     NJ Morristown      +12 Gauge Skeet&Trap BBS    210-538-6087
     NJ Oakhusrt        Ironhorse BBS               908-531-4238
     NJ Passaic-DOWN    VETLink #5                  201-778-1879-NL !
     NJ Paterson        The Butterfly BBS           201-523-1162
     NJ Port Monmouth   The POW/MIA BBS             908-787-8383-NL !
                        (VETLink #42)
     NJ Sayreville      Cop Shop                    908-254-8117
     NM Las Cruces      Alien's Shore               505-523-6591
     NM Las Cruces      Desert Dophlin/VETLink #13  505-523-2811-NL !
     NM Las Cruces      NASW (E-N)                  505-646-2868-NL
     NM Las Vegas       BBS Ancianos Unidos         505-425-0493
     NM Portales-DOWN   Piper's Dream (VETLink #12) 505-359-0668-NL !
     NM WSMR            The Wolf's Den              505-678-8948-SB
     NV Las Vegas       Big Joe's BBS               702-459-3924
     NV Reno            InterComm BBS               702-359-2696
     NV Reno            InterComm BBS               702-359-2666
     NV Sparks          Nevada Mac                  702-359-6979
     NY Ballston Spa    Access BBS                  518-885-4192
     NY Central Valley  Monroe-Woodbury High School 914-928-8660
     NY Chili           Flower City Central         716-889-2016
     NY Johnsonville    Steamer One                 518-753-7421-NL?=20
     NY Latham          The Three L's BBS           518-785-1715
     NY Marlboro        Acorn I BBS                 914-236-3265
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 93
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     NY Newburgh        THOR! BBS                   914-562-3431
     NY New York City   City People BBS             212-255-6656
     NY Owego           NiteWing                    607-687-3470-NL?
     NY Phoenix         Galaxia !                   315-673-9415
     NY Portland        The Black Hole              716-792-7304
     NY Poughkeepsie    Purple Rose of Cairo        914-473-1697
     NY Rome            Catfish Mecca               315-336-8948
     NY Utica           W.A.A. BBS                  315-797-3054
     OH Akron           Buckeye Hamshack            216-867-6984
     OH Canton          CanCom BBS                  216-478-0548
     OH Cincinnati      Access! BBS                 513-921-7623
     OH Cincinnati      CINTUG TBBS                 513-474-2985
     OH Cincinnati      KIC                         513-762-1115
     OH Cincinnati      Showcase TBBS               513-528-7018
     OH Cleveland       OHIONet Express             216-842-5911
     OH Kent            BYTES BBS                   216-677-4978
     OH Ravenna         Blue Parrot RBBS            216-296-2244
     OH Rocky River     Nerd's Nook II              216-356-1772
     OK Edmond          Coordinator's BBS           405-341-7042
     OK Edmond          The Far Side QuickBBS       405-341-4720
     OK Lawton          VETLink #57 Mailroom        405-355-0322-NL !
       Is Actually VETLink #58
     OK Lawton          357 Magnum                  405-536-5032
     OK Midwest City    Torii Station               405-733-7083
     OK Midwest City    Waypoint BBS (VETLink #34)  405-741-2533-NL !
     OK Mustang         The Citadel BBS             405-376-1610
     OK Norman          The FAMILY TREE             405-321-0642
     OK Norman          Mann's Solutions            405-447-3211
     OK Oklahoma City   Aviator's Haven             405-691-0851
     OK Oklahoma City   MetroCop                    405-631-6971
     OR Beaverton       Sons of Freedom             503-579-6921
     OR Clackamas       A.W.O.L.                    503-657-5412
     OR Eugene          Out Front                   503-687-5991-NL(?)
     OR Gold Hill       PRIME Time BBS              503-857-2653
     OR Newberg         Chehalem BBS                503-538-0539
     OR Portland        Combat Arms                 503-221-1777
     OR Portland        Landing Zone (VETLink #7)   503-775-1554-NL !
     OR Portland        Last Chance Systems         503-289-6493-NL !
                        (VETLink #54)  =20
     OR Portland        NWCS                        503-620-6594
     OR Portland        NWCS                        503-620-5910
     PA Folcroft        Copy-Cat BBS                610-583-9784
     PA Folcroft        Copy-Cat BBS                610-583-8161
     PA Gladwyne        Creative Dynamics           215-725-9134
     PA Harrisburg      Emergency Services BBS      717-566-3500
     PA Harrisburg      Pennsylvania Online         717-657-8699
     PA Ivyland         DSC VoiceNet                215-443-5838
     PA Ivyland         DSC VoiceNet                215-443-9434
     PA Johnstown       The Family BBS              814-536-7617
     PA New Columbia    Ike's Place                 717-538-3009
     PA Newtown         The Newtown Express BBS     215-860-6562
     PA Philadelphia    Dungeon BBS                 215-331-8386
     PA Pittsburgh      BULLET Inn Board            412-264-3175
     PA Secane          The Cheyenne BBS            215-544-0819
     PA Sharon          Radio Sharon                412-981-3151
     PA Whitehall       Father and Son BBS          610-439-1175
     PA York            Animation Station           717-764-1238
     RI Warwick         Eagle's Nest Communications 401-732-5290
     SC N. Charleston   Arcs & Sparks BBS           803-824-0070
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 94
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     TN Bartlett        IN QUEUE BBS                901-377-0220
     TN Bartlett        M.I.A. Missing in America   901-388-3128
     TN Collierville    East End BBS                901-853-9614
     TN Cordova         Eagle's Nest                901-385-7170
     TN Louisville      Stepping Stones             615-977-7359
     TN Memphis         Data Connection             901-683-5410-NL
     TN Memphis         Unleaded Sunshine           901-363-5686
     TN Millington      Fitzpatrick's Fireplace     901-872-1928
     TN Millington      Gobal Exchange              901-873-3500
     TN Millington      Gobal Exchange              901-873-2837
     TN Millington      Havenhawks BBS              901-873-0965
     TN Millington      Pathways                    901-835-3464
     TN Millington      Shadow Rider                901-873-1570
     TN Mt. Juliet      Emerald City                615-758-0437
     TN Mt. Juliet      Emerald City                615-754-4351
     TN Nashville       Homestead                   615-385-9421
     TN Nashville       Nashville Exchange          615-383-0119
     TN Newport         SkyBoard                    615-623-8203
     TX Abilene         McScott's BBS               915-672-3604
     TX Allen           Wheel Trails                214-727-2610
     TX Amarillo        The Barnyard                806-353-7000
     TX Amarillo        My House BBS                806-376-7904
     TX Austin          Austin Connection           512-443-3096
     TX Austin          Casa de La Luz              512-219-9853-NL
     TX Austin          Connect America             512-454-9488-PB
     TX Austin          Dingle Delaware             512-442-8145
     TX Bridge City     Dream Machine               409-735-7824
     TX Bridge City     Dream Machine               409-735-6219
     TX Copperas Cove   Toad Hall                   817-547-0119-NL !
     TX Corpus Christi  Solar FX                    512-883-7839
     TX Dallas          Aaron's Beard               214-557-2642
     TX Dallas          *Chrysalis*                 214-690-9296
     TX Dallas          *Chrysalis*                 817-540-5565
     TX El Paso         Lost Horizons               915-757-3972
     TX Elkhart         The Barn Owl BBS            903-764-2803
     TX Falls City-DOWN Commo Bunker (VETLink #30)  210-780-2060-NL !
     TX Fort Worth      Revelstone                  817-732-1767
     TX Fort Worth      Bored to Death BBS          817-244-4245-NL !
                        (VETLink #36)
     TX Grand Prairie   Lost in Time                214-642-6095
     TX Grand Prairie   XANADU                      214-647-8125
     TX Houston         Cloud Nine BBS              713-856-2599
     TX Houston         The Fireside                713-496-6319
     TX Houston         Info Net & Police Net       713-873-0403
     TX Houston         Komputers for Kids          713-286-7800
     TX Houston         The Leaders in Control      713-584-1821
     TX Houston         The RASTER Line             713-568-0825
     TX Houston         The Soldier's Bored - OS 2  713-437-2859
     TX Houston         Solutions                   713-438-1219-NL
     TX Katy            Executive Washroom          713-347-2558-NL
     TX Lake Travis     Crystal Palace              512-335-7949
     TX Montgomery      Hackers Forum               409-447-2277
     TX Plano           VETLink #38 Mailroom        214-424-5910-NL !
     TX Plano           Th' Cellar                  214-423-7318
     TX Richardson      Night Lights                214-480-8170
     TX Richardson      Texas Talk                  214-680-4330
     TX Rockwall        NCC-1701                    214-771-3226
     TX Texas City      Cal-Trek                    409-945-8315
     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 95
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

     TX Tyler           Texas Open Forum            903-534-1918
     TX Universal City  Heidi Search Center         210-659-2305-NL
     TX Universal City  The Ranch House             210-945-9304-NL !
                DOWN -  (VETLink #31)=20
     TX Watauga         Flightline BBS              817-656-3082
     TX Wichita Falls   The LightSpeed Chronicle    817-696-2231
     VA Alexandria      IDS                         703-642-3616
     VA Alexandria      (^Infinite Data Source)     703-642-8801
     VA Alexandria      The INFO BBS                703-799-3255
     VA Chesapeake      The Apex                    804-436-3125
     VA Chesapeake      Genesis BBS                 804-548-1407
     VA Falmouth        Jack's Emporium             703-373-8215
     VA Fort Story      GI Joe's BBS (VETLink #59)  804-437-8128-NL !
     VA Herndon         HBX Veterans Memorial       703-471-8010-NL !
                        (VETLink #2)
     VA Herndon         VETLink #21                 703-471-8563-NL !
     VA Newport News    Dragon BBS                  804-877-5345
     VA Virginia Beach  HandiNet B B S              804-496-3320
     VA Williamsburg    Rainbow's End               804-872-7171
     VA Williamsburg    Williamsburg PC-Link        804-565-3503-NL !
                        (VETLink #40)
     WA Brownsville     The Jimby BBS               206-698-1044-NL
     WA Des Moines      After 10:00 BBS             206-878-8633
     WA Everett         Mark's Point                206-486-2415
     WA Everett         Silver Lake                 206-338-3723
     WA Everett         StarLink                    206-252-8932
     WA Graham          The Last Frontier           206-847-8168
     WA Kirkland        SeaEast PC Exchange         206-822-4615
     WA Port Orchard    Armor of God BBS            206-871-9241
     WA Puyallup        The Eagles BBS              206-531-8304
     WA Redmond         GreyHounds BBS              206-868-4402
     WA Seattle         The Helix                   206-783-6368
     WA Spokane         Think Tank II               509-244-3511
     WA Tacoma          Cop-Out BBS                 206-472-4069
     WA Tacoma          Peachy Keeno Inn BBS        206-539-0804
     WA Tacoma          Tacoma Recovery BBS         206-589-3820
     WI Ellsworth       Info-Link                   715-273-6132
     WI Green Bay       The First Step              414-499-6646
     WI Menomonee Falls Anonymous BBS               414-251-2580
     WI Milwaukee       Country Computer            414-355-3691
     WI Milwaukee       Disc Golfer BBS             414-964-5111
     WI Milwaukee       Good News BBS               414-365-1624
     WV Cross Lanes     Project Enable              304-759-0729
     WV Kincaid         The Empire BBS              304-465-5223
     WV St. Albans      The Black Hole BBS          304-727-5711
     WV Weirton         MindLess One's BBS          304-723-2135
     WY Casper          Enterprise                  307-237-0800
     * MI Adrian        Freedom's Ring   517-263-4509
                             * KEY:
      E-N =3D No IVVEC Echo, but does have the Nam_Vet newsletter=20
      NL  =3D Carries both IVVEC and the Nam_Vet newsletter
      PB  =3D Pay BBS (Pay for On-line Time)
      SB  =3D Subscription BBS (Flat Fee)
       !  =3D VETLink BBS

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 96
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

                      NamVet Distribution Survey Form
     NamVet's  editorial  staff would like to know where  YOU  received
     this  copy of NamVet.   Please take a few moments to complete  and
     return this page (or a copy) to us.
     STATE & ZIP______________________________________________________
     Where did you obtain/read the NamVet Newsletter? ________________
     Do you make NamVet available to others? _________________________
       If YES:   Individual / /    Educational / /    Vet Groups / /
     What do you find most/least helpful about NamVet?________________
     What other information would you like to see in NamVet? _________
     Additional Comments _____________________________________________
     YOUR poem, letter, article about the veteran Experience -  whether
     you  were  in  Vietnam,  in the military or  not  -  is  extremely
     welcomed  by  the  editorial staff of NamVet.   We invite  you  to
     include one (or many) with your return of this form.
     Thank  You  for  your  time  and help  in  making  NamVet  *-THE-*
     electronic  newsletter by,  for and about veterans and the  issues
     that concern them!
     Please return replies/articles/poems/etc. to:
                             Mrs. Joyce Flory
                        NamVet Distribution Survey
                    1825 Evelyn - Las Cruces, NM  88001
                        NamVet Distribution Survey
            Electronic Veterans' Centers of America, Corp (EVAC)
               PO Box 261692 - Tampa, Florida  33615-261692

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 97
=0C     Volume  8, Number  8                               August 23, 1994

         Some Gave ALL ...                      Some Still Give!!!
               O                                      O
                O                    SOME GAVE ALL  ...
        !         O                                O               !
        ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia !
        !           O                            O                 !
        ! ~~~~~ ~ ~  O~   ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~~ ~ ~~   O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~  ~~~  ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~  ~ ~~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~  ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        ! ~~~  ~~ ~~ ~  O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~  O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~  ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~  O          ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O)       / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  /          / O   \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~ ~  ~~ ~~ / PRISONER /       \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~  ~ ~~ ~~ /   OF     /\          \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ /          /  \   IN     \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~  !
        ! ~~~  ~~~ ~ /    WAR   / ~~ \          \  ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / ~ ~~ \  ACTION /  ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \       /   ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \     /  ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \   / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~  !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
        ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow !

     NamVet Newsletter                                          Page 98